Thread: HDPA does indeed lie about firearms

17 years with no prob and then someone in the police decided to let any Tom,Dick or Harry have the form, therefore creating the perceived "problem!"

We knock Occonor, but he has been a good advocate for the PA and that's his job. The members have supported him. We use some quite ugly and personal language about him simply on the basis of not agreeing with what he says - but he's not a bad man .

I don't know if undermining public respect for the people you represent is really being a good advocate? Just another agenda-pushing wannabe politician in my books.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

I don't know if undermining public respect for the people you represent is really being a good advocate? Just another agenda-pushing wannabe politician in my books.

We represent a very minor part of the "public". I dont think that he or in fact the Association care too much about who we respect.
And of course he is pushing an agenda. That's the essence of what unions do.

Originally Posted by Tahr

And of course he is pushing an agenda. That's the essence of what unions do.

Maybe I should have made that clearer - I get the impression he's pushing his own personal agenda regardless of whether or not it actually reprents the people in his union.

A person that wants to arm the police and remove those privileges from the public, has to be a worry?

Originally Posted by Maca49

A person that wants to arm the police and remove those privileges from the public, has to be a worry?

Maybe having been a cop for so long (and apparently a political desk cop insulated from the public for a lot of that) has given him a particularly bad case of a 'them and us' mentality, thinking anyone who isn't a cop is a criminal - a bit like the way some schoolteachers who have never been outside the education system treat everybody who isn't a teacher like a child.

In fact, has he ever done anything else? Article about him stepping down from the union says he is in his 50s and has been a cop for over 37 years.

You guys keep attacking him personally as an individual. Even linking what he says on behalf of the association with dubious facts about his career and experience. That's just shit. He represents an association which represents its members views. Instead of personalising everything, wouldnt it be better to debate the actual policies and ideas he is promoting?
Personal assassination gives me the shits.

Originally Posted by Tahr

wouldnt it be better to debate the actual policies and ideas he is promoting?

Actual policies & ideas you say? I think you are completely ignorant to the fact that this man has used insidious scare-mongering tactics to throw of the general public on firearm use in NZ. Especially for us law-abiding citizens! He has been quoted for saying that the law abiding FAL holders may have to lose some of their "rights" to mitigate all those illegal guns here in NZ.. His ideas are nothing but woeful, nonfactual wild assumptions which are far from being anything good

Originally Posted by Tahr

Personal assassination gives me the shits.

And trying to destroy the very essence of what makes this country unique and stand out from the rest really really gives me the shits. We have one of the best licencing systems in the world. And this good advocate as you say is slowly but surely feeding misinformation to a vast majority of people about laws & "loopholes" involving firearms.

Originally Posted by Tahr

You guys keep attacking him personally as an individual. Even linking what he says on behalf of the association with dubious facts about his career and experience. That's just shit. He represents an association which represents its members views. Instead of personalising everything, wouldnt it be better to debate the actual policies and ideas he is promoting?
Personal assassination gives me the shits.

As many of us think he steeped over the line and illegally added in reporters braking the law(something I doubt many cops would support-even if they agree with his end goal) you have to expect some ill will to be expressed towards the man.

Personally I think the guy is scum and drags down the image of front line police-and they are people I very highly respect

Originally Posted by Maca49

A person that wants to arm the police and remove those privileges from the public, has to be a worry?

It's good that he wants the cops armed. I'd like to see them armed, like they are in in almost every other country in the world.

Originally Posted by systolic

It's good that he wants the cops armed. I'd like to see them armed, like they are in in almost every other country in the world.

Given the shit situations cops are at high risk of walking into I can understand the call to arm them. And if arming them is ever done there better be a huge increase in police budget to go with it for the extra training etc.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Actual policies & ideas you say? I think you are completely ignorant to the fact that this man has used insidious scare-mongering tactics to throw of the general public on firearm use in NZ. Especially for us law-abiding citizens! He has been quoted for saying that the law abiding FAL holders may have to lose some of their "rights" to mitigate all those illegal guns here in NZ.. His ideas are nothing but woeful, nonfactual wild assumptions which are far from being anything good



And trying to destroy the very essence of what makes this country unique and stand out from the rest really really gives me the shits. We have one of the best licencing systems in the world. And this good advocate as you say is slowly but surely feeding misinformation to a vast majority of people about laws & "loopholes" involving firearms.

I'm not ignorant of the fact that some of us shooters and hunters are so subjective that we are beyond being reasonable, nor that we select data and information to support our own bias in the same way that the Assotiation does.

Originally Posted by systolic

It's good that he wants the cops armed. I'd like to see them armed, like they are in in almost every other country in the world.

What's the point? A better way than giving a lot of non licenced, poorly trained police officers the right to carry, would be to let them have the teeth to do their job properly now. Imagine the self harm if you armed them! It's bad enough now and many police want nothing to do with firearms. Just because the REST of the world is armed doesn't mean we HAVE to follow

Originally Posted by Tahr

You guys keep attacking him personally as an individual. Even linking what he says on behalf of the association with dubious facts about his career and experience. That's just shit. He represents an association which represents its members views. Instead of personalising everything, wouldnt it be better to debate the actual policies and ideas he is promoting?

My comments above were not attacking him as a person, just speculating as to possible reasons why his ideas seem so detached from reality to many of us.

His policies and ideas have been debated here many times over, why bother doing it again? I don't think I ever did get a good answer about why the official police statistics about reductions in firearm crime contradict what he claims 'on behalf of police officers'.

The current and former police officers I know personally don't seem to agree with his views and policies that supposedly represent their interests.