Thread: HDPA does indeed lie about firearms

Originally Posted by systolic

Shotguns? For cops? In this country?

Are you on drugs?

It would be the way forward, with the choice of lethal & non lethal solutions

Originally Posted by systolic

Shotguns? For cops? In this country?

Are you on drugs?

It's the perfect choice for the average cop, They don't have enough range time to be proficient with high velocity weapons.Most of the time they use weapons in built up area's. When the supposedly highly trained AOS blows away innocent courier drivers it's amazing that they even consider AR15's for the rank and file.

If the police need firearms it is deadly force they should be using, shotguns would be far more effective, without long range stray projectile flying everywhere as was the case in Hamilton. A twelve gauge barrel is pretty hard to run away from!

Originally Posted by systolic

Shotguns? For cops? In this country?

Are you on drugs?

Obviously my drugs keep me sane! Yours???

Originally Posted by Maca49

If the police need firearms it is deadly force they should be using, shotguns would be far more effective, without long range stray projectile flying everywhere as was the case in Hamilton. A twelve gauge barrel is pretty hard to run away from!

A twelve gauge also has the advantage of making the scumbag look down a fucking big hole. Maybe make the dumb cnuts think for the first time in their lives.

Originally Posted by Maca49

If the police need firearms it is deadly force they should be using, shotguns would be far more effective, without long range stray projectile flying everywhere as was the case in Hamilton. A twelve gauge barrel is pretty hard to run away from!

Long range stray projectiles flying everywhere? That's the reason shotguns are bad news.

My Rem 870 with a improved cylinder choke won't keep all pellets from a OO buckshot load on a NRA D1 target much past 17m or so. Then one or two start missing the target, simply because of spread.

What happens when one of those nine pellets, fired by a cop, misses the felon and hits a bystander? What happens if the bad guy is 40m away, well outside the effective range of a shotgun?

How would some of those tiny WPCs handle the recoil from a shotgun?

I watched a three gun match at the Rotorua range once. It was interesting to see a number of shooters mix up their ammo to the point some got disqualified.

How would an undertrained cop be expected to get OO buckshot and bean bag rounds loaded in the right order?

Your idea is laughable.

Didn't the Americans find shotguns to cause more collateral damage than rifles?

Originally Posted by Savage1

I've also spent entire shifts armed and have been in scuffles whilst wearing a firearm.

I was told a story by one cop about losing his in a scuffle. IIRC he was called out to a domestic at a known gang house, went onto the property armed 'for insurance' but got blindsided by a couple of guys as soon as the door opened. Got a bit of a beating, surrounded in the front yard. After being roughed up he was retreating to the car and realised the holster was empty, dreading having to report losing it but as he was leaving one of the older wiser blokes from the house quietly walked up and handed it back to him.

He reckoned he was lucky that one of the calmer heads ended up with it, but also that things probably would have gone far worse for him if he'd managed to draw it.

I have to say it was very interesting being party to a conversation between a few current and ex cops about their hairy moments on the job. Got the impression they used to have a lot of fun practicing shooting in the past before management decided they were spending too much on ammunition.

I put it to the floor that Savage1 should be armed to the teeth with Pistol, AR15 and semi auto shotgun when he patrols through the Tikipunga Tavern car park. All those in favour?

My wife's son is a Policeman in Brisbane. He's a constable so he's active most of the time. In 4 years he hasn't drawn his pistol a single time, and his Taser only 3 times. Has never fired his Taser.
He says though that he wouldn't want to step onto the street without his pistol. They have live firing and pistol drills 4 times a year. The standard issue is a Glock and 2 mags and 30 rounds of ammo.

He seems quite knowledgable about the Glock, it's short comings and how to use.

Just thought people might find that interesting.

Originally Posted by res

Didn't the Americans find shotguns to cause more collateral damage than rifles?

Tighten the friggen choke!!! You have choices, solids, buck, smaller shot, Rock salt, flechers?, small arrows, hurt real bad, rubber projectiles, and if you must Black Powder for effect!!

Originally Posted by Savage1

The current system works?! So cops getting shot and shot at and having their cars stolen is acceptable?! What a stupid thing to say, easily said from an armchair though.

I personally know the cops that were shot at in Whangarei, they don't agree that they were in an acceptable situation, neither do their partners and children.

I've also spent entire shifts armed and have been in scuffles whilst wearing a firearm.

I agree that the situation is not acceptable, that's why he's off to jail.
I think you will find that any criminal action towards police or the public is unacceptable.
Do you really believe that the current system does not work and cannot work better with a few tweaks and that routine arming of police is the end all solution?

Also curious, did you vote for O'Connor?

Originally Posted by Tahr

My wife's son is a Policeman in Brisbane. He's a constable so he's active most of the time. In 4 years he hasn't drawn his pistol a single time, and his Taser only 3 times. Has never fired his Taser.
He says though that he wouldn't want to step onto the street without his pistol. They have live firing and pistol drills 4 times a year. The standard issue is a Glock and 2 mags and 30 rounds of ammo.

He seems quite knowledgable about the Glock, it's short comings and how to use.

Just thought people might find that interesting.

4 practice shoots a year would mean you could take you chances and run!!

Originally Posted by Maca49

4 practice shoots a year would mean you could take you chances and run!!

I'm inclined to agree with this

One thing I've always wondered, for my owm amusement, is how "personal" is a Police man's rifle? As in, is a New Zealand Police officer "issued" a rifle that becomes their responsibility, or are they drawn from a collective pool when required? Do individual officers sight in their rifle or is it done by an armourer? Is an officer allowed to disassemble a rifle for maintance or remedial of a serious malfunction or is it sent to an armourer? I presume that being armed with a pistol, they would be taught to pitch the rifle in the event of something like a bolt over ride or a blown primer locking the gun up.