Thread: How to immobilise old fiream to create safe wall hanging

If you used a grinder on the wall side of the firearm and cut a slot through action, bolt and chamber and welded the lot together, that would deactivate it. When the arms officer insists it can be made to fire, tell them to show you, while you watch...

Posted with tongue firmly in cheek!

If you hold a firearm part you require a license, unless an antique and that still requires minimal security. A disabled firearm is still parts.

I have been present for a similar process pre 2019 for two No3 mk1* rifles, the requirement was any and all load bearing parts and any moving components must be structurally compromised and incapacitated in a manner that is irreparable.

So the list included a 9’ 1.5mm slit from chamber to rifling, with a large hole underneath the chamber, which conveniently helped to weld the bolt face solid to the barrel and action

Two holes along the length of the barrel one underneath and one on top

Bolt weakend and cross cut underneath through 50% of the mass and all channels and holes filled with weld.

Bolt welded from under magazine well to action

Magazine welded in place with no internals, and magazine catch welded, witness hole drilled in the bottom.

Sear and fire control components removed, area filled with metal and welded.

Trigger welded solid

Saftey welded in “safe position”

Rod pressed into barrel, welded in place 2’ back from muzzle and via aforementioned large holes drilled in barrel.

All of the slicing and holes were hidden under the wood and one could barely tell, somewhat an art from in its own right.

They were sent off to Wellington for a check with the anmourer and deemed acceptable for public display.

They were for or a part of some of Peter Jackson’s WW1 displays in Wellington, although I’m not entirely sure why he required genuine rifles that a prop couldn’t fill in, but he owns more guns than all of us put together so, can’t blame him for wanting the real deal.

As to the legality of them now, I have no idea, but back then they were fine for handling and promotional shoots in public, I’d love to know what became of them.

While the Police don't recognize deactivated firearms, that is policy rather than law. It is possible to deactivate firearms, much to the displeasure of the Police, in a manner that retains the external appearance. This involves cutting, milling, drilling and welding to the extent that all of the major parts are completely incapable of being 'reactivated'. Seeking Police permission or advice beforehand is not a legal requirement but you must be able to show that the deactivation has been done in such a way that the end product is no longer a 'firearm'. Not always either easy or cheap to do properly but something I have done many times. I have been threatened with prosecution in the past, but they never followed through because they knew I was doing it correctly.

Originally Posted by gundoc

While the Police don't recognize deactivated firearms, that is policy rather than law. It is possible to deactivate firearms, much to the displeasure of the Police, in a manner that retains the external appearance. This involves cutting, milling, drilling and welding to the extent that all of the major parts are completely incapable of being 'reactivated'. Seeking Police permission or advice beforehand is not a legal requirement but you must be able to show that the deactivation has been done in such a way that the end product is no longer a 'firearm'. Not always either easy or cheap to do properly but something I have done many times. I have been threatened with prosecution in the past, but they never followed through because they knew I was doing it correctly.

What legislation guided you?

Originally Posted by No.3

Part of the issue with this is that there have been arguments over when something is a "firearm" and when something isn't.

If the definition of a firearm is something that is capable of discharging a shot by means of the contained expansion blah blah blah - if it isn't capable of that and all of the components have been modified to not fit a firearm again is it still? Thats a bit beyond the scope of the original question, but the crux of it is that there is no mechanism in the Arms Act as it currently stands to render something inactive or no longer a firearm. What this means, is that it is rather difficult to do what is wanted (render a firearm useless to allow it do be displayed without contravening any laws).

If the deactivated firearm was stolen off the wall and then presented in a crime such as an armed robbery of a shop (purely intimidation), it's not somewhere I'd want to go as the law is currently written.

The police would only accept it as a deactivated firearm if it was laser cut right through the middle. It’s no longer capable of reassembly etc. I was told this when enquiring about a trophy.

Originally Posted by omark

The police would only accept it as a deactivated firearm if it was laser cut right through the middle. It’s no longer capable of reassembly etc. I was told this when enquiring about a trophy.

That's the problem in a nutshell - anything is capable of reassembly it just has to be worth the cost. Everything made can be remade - the issue becomes practicality. Cutting something in half lengthways is not the most practical way to render something inert - the Lee Enfield armourer's or training sectionalised firearms are a good example. No way they would ever fire again without some major work but are still considered firearms.

From opinions I have heard the key safety things that need to be affected to render something inert include affecting the headspace and bolt lockup to prevent the thing being put into battery safely with a round chambered, the firing system altered to prevent a primer from being ignited and the barrel opened and plugged to prevent anything from being ejected out the end. Deal with those bits and what you have is no longer a firearm...

Even the Police didn't go down the track of laser cutting when they did their buyback and deactivating, they just bent them in a few places. Given enough time and someone with the right amount of enthusiasm even those could have been made to shoot again (although I would not be the first in the line to try them out haha).

Originally Posted by No.3

That's the problem in a nutshell - anything is capable of reassembly it just has to be worth the cost. Everything made can be remade - the issue becomes practicality. Cutting something in half lengthways is not the most practical way to render something inert - the Lee Enfield armourer's or training sectionalised firearms are a good example. No way they would ever fire again without some major work but are still considered firearms.

From opinions I have heard the key safety things that need to be affected to render something inert include affecting the headspace and bolt lockup to prevent the thing being put into battery safely with a round chambered, the firing system altered to prevent a primer from being ignited and the barrel opened and plugged to prevent anything from being ejected out the end. Deal with those bits and what you have is no longer a firearm...

Even the Police didn't go down the track of laser cutting when they did their buyback and deactivating, they just bent them in a few places. Given enough time and someone with the right amount of enthusiasm even those could have been made to shoot again (although I would not be the first in the line to try them out haha).

At some stage the deactivation reaches a level of effectiveness that anyone with the ability to un-deactivate it, will also have the ability to manufacture. In which scenario un-deactivation will be a waste of their time in the event that they are seeking to produce a working firearm.

Originally Posted by longshot

At some stage the deactivation reaches a level of effectiveness that anyone with the ability to un-deactivate it, will also have the ability to manufacture. In which scenario un-deactivation will be a waste of their time in the event that they are seeking to produce a working firearm.

True... Which does raise the question where to replica display-only non functional firearms come into this equation - as someone suggested probably the re-write of the arms act is a good time to sort some of this out.

I suspect some of the thinking on this restriction comes down to the issue of not wanting firearms to be 'visual' anywhere - having a means to render a firearm permanently deactivated for display just doesn't fit into this at all.

Originally Posted by No.3

True... Which does raise the question where to replica display-only non functional firearms come into this equation - as someone suggested probably the re-write of the arms act is a good time to sort some of this out.

I suspect some of the thinking on this restriction comes down to the issue of not wanting firearms to be 'visual' anywhere - having a means to render a firearm permanently deactivated for display just doesn't fit into this at all.

If by’replica display only non functional’ you are referring to the likes of denix etc, they don’t really come into the equation as they aren’t a firearm under the act.

Originally Posted by inglishill

What legislation guided you?

There is no legislation that specifically deals with the subject. The legislation only deals with 'firearms' so I simply make sure that they are no longer classifiable as such. Be aware that Police statements as to what they will or will not accept have no legal validity unless they comply with legislation. This concept is foreign to many Police officers who think what they say has to be obeyed. I am always happy to obey the law, but not personal demands that are 'ultra vires'. The Courts have agreed with me. On a personal note, I am opposed to deactivation and prefer to have the original items under the required security, but despite advice to the contrary, the customer is always right!

Billymavs post above describes the kind of work that has to be done to render the item no longer classifiable as a 'firearm'.

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

Find someone withe a laser or water jet and cut it vertically to have a 1/2 a display piece?

A firearm dealer recently told me to do this.

Originally Posted by gundoc

There is no legislation that specifically deals with the subject. The legislation only deals with 'firearms' so I simply make sure that they are no longer classifiable as such. Be aware that Police statements as to what they will or will not accept have no legal validity unless they comply with legislation. This concept is foreign to many Police officers who think what they say has to be obeyed. I am always happy to obey the law, but not personal demands that are 'ultra vires'. The Courts have agreed with me. On a personal note, I am opposed to deactivation and prefer to have the original items under the required security, but despite advice to the contrary, the customer is always right!

I am confused, if there is no legislation that specifically deals with the subject then there is no 'deactivation'. There is, as you say, no law for it. How can you then argue 'I have been threatened with prosecution in the past, but they never followed through because they knew I was doing it correctly"?

​How can you do it 'correctly' if there is no legislation to guide you?

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

Find someone withe a laser or water jet and cut it vertically to have a 1/2 a display piece?

You could always sell half to offset your costs