Thread: How to immobilise old fiream to create safe wall hanging

Well there is an opened submission for a review of the firearm act from 13 th of January onward, maybe we should start writing about making a provision for desactivated firearms?

Find someone withe a laser or water jet and cut it vertically to have a 1/2 a display piece?

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

Find someone withe a laser or water jet and cut it vertically to have a 1/2 a display piece?

Many years ago, when Joe Green was the man answering questions it was commented that lengthwise sectionalising - as you suggest - was the only way they would consider a firearm deactivated and still recognisable.

This is purely hearsay and not legal advice..... just a comment i remembered from a meeting.

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

Find someone withe a laser or water jet and cut it vertically to have a 1/2 a display piece?

A firearm dealer recently told me to do this.

Originally Posted by Kiwilad2021

A firearm dealer recently told me to do this.

This is where we can get ourselves into trouble. A firearms dealer is not a Judge. A policeman is not a Judge. Even a lawyer with a legal opinion is not a Judge.

Has this ever been tested in a court of law? The proposition that a firearm that is cut vertically is no longer a firearm?

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

Find someone withe a laser or water jet and cut it vertically to have a 1/2 a display piece?

You could always sell half to offset your costs

If you used a grinder on the wall side of the firearm and cut a slot through action, bolt and chamber and welded the lot together, that would deactivate it. When the arms officer insists it can be made to fire, tell them to show you, while you watch...

Posted with tongue firmly in cheek!

If you hold a firearm part you require a license, unless an antique and that still requires minimal security. A disabled firearm is still parts.

I have been present for a similar process pre 2019 for two No3 mk1* rifles, the requirement was any and all load bearing parts and any moving components must be structurally compromised and incapacitated in a manner that is irreparable.

So the list included a 9’ 1.5mm slit from chamber to rifling, with a large hole underneath the chamber, which conveniently helped to weld the bolt face solid to the barrel and action

Two holes along the length of the barrel one underneath and one on top

Bolt weakend and cross cut underneath through 50% of the mass and all channels and holes filled with weld.

Bolt welded from under magazine well to action

Magazine welded in place with no internals, and magazine catch welded, witness hole drilled in the bottom.

Sear and fire control components removed, area filled with metal and welded.

Trigger welded solid

Saftey welded in “safe position”

Rod pressed into barrel, welded in place 2’ back from muzzle and via aforementioned large holes drilled in barrel.

All of the slicing and holes were hidden under the wood and one could barely tell, somewhat an art from in its own right.

They were sent off to Wellington for a check with the anmourer and deemed acceptable for public display.

They were for or a part of some of Peter Jackson’s WW1 displays in Wellington, although I’m not entirely sure why he required genuine rifles that a prop couldn’t fill in, but he owns more guns than all of us put together so, can’t blame him for wanting the real deal.

As to the legality of them now, I have no idea, but back then they were fine for handling and promotional shoots in public, I’d love to know what became of them.

Originally Posted by Billymavs

I have been present for a similar process pre 2019 for two No3 mk1* rifles, the requirement was any and all load bearing parts and any moving components must be structurally compromised and incapacitated in a manner that is irreparable.

So the list included a 9’ 1.5mm slit from chamber to rifling, with a large hole underneath the chamber, which conveniently helped to weld the bolt face solid to the barrel and action

Two holes along the length of the barrel one underneath and one on top

Bolt weakend and cross cut underneath through 50% of the mass and all channels and holes filled with weld.

Bolt welded from under magazine well to action

Magazine welded in place with no internals, and magazine catch welded, witness hole drilled in the bottom.

Sear and fire control components removed, area filled with metal and welded.

Trigger welded solid

Saftey welded in “safe position”

Rod pressed into barrel, welded in place 2’ back from muzzle and via aforementioned large holes drilled in barrel.

All of the slicing and holes were hidden under the wood and one could barely tell, somewhat an art from in its own right.

They were sent off to Wellington for a check with the anmourer and deemed acceptable for public display.

They were for or a part of some of Peter Jackson’s WW1 displays in Wellington, although I’m not entirely sure why he required genuine rifles that a prop couldn’t fill in, but he owns more guns than all of us put together so, can’t blame him for wanting the real deal.

As to the legality of them now, I have no idea, but back then they were fine for handling and promotional shoots in public, I’d love to know what became of them.

One would think someone could find a sporter with a full length clapped out barrel and sloppy bolt to restore with repro wood than mutilate a bona fide piece.

While the Police don't recognize deactivated firearms, that is policy rather than law. It is possible to deactivate firearms, much to the displeasure of the Police, in a manner that retains the external appearance. This involves cutting, milling, drilling and welding to the extent that all of the major parts are completely incapable of being 'reactivated'. Seeking Police permission or advice beforehand is not a legal requirement but you must be able to show that the deactivation has been done in such a way that the end product is no longer a 'firearm'. Not always either easy or cheap to do properly but something I have done many times. I have been threatened with prosecution in the past, but they never followed through because they knew I was doing it correctly.

Originally Posted by gundoc

While the Police don't recognize deactivated firearms, that is policy rather than law. It is possible to deactivate firearms, much to the displeasure of the Police, in a manner that retains the external appearance. This involves cutting, milling, drilling and welding to the extent that all of the major parts are completely incapable of being 'reactivated'. Seeking Police permission or advice beforehand is not a legal requirement but you must be able to show that the deactivation has been done in such a way that the end product is no longer a 'firearm'. Not always either easy or cheap to do properly but something I have done many times. I have been threatened with prosecution in the past, but they never followed through because they knew I was doing it correctly.

What legislation guided you?

Originally Posted by inglishill

What legislation guided you?

There is no legislation that specifically deals with the subject. The legislation only deals with 'firearms' so I simply make sure that they are no longer classifiable as such. Be aware that Police statements as to what they will or will not accept have no legal validity unless they comply with legislation. This concept is foreign to many Police officers who think what they say has to be obeyed. I am always happy to obey the law, but not personal demands that are 'ultra vires'. The Courts have agreed with me. On a personal note, I am opposed to deactivation and prefer to have the original items under the required security, but despite advice to the contrary, the customer is always right!

Originally Posted by gundoc

There is no legislation that specifically deals with the subject. The legislation only deals with 'firearms' so I simply make sure that they are no longer classifiable as such. Be aware that Police statements as to what they will or will not accept have no legal validity unless they comply with legislation. This concept is foreign to many Police officers who think what they say has to be obeyed. I am always happy to obey the law, but not personal demands that are 'ultra vires'. The Courts have agreed with me. On a personal note, I am opposed to deactivation and prefer to have the original items under the required security, but despite advice to the contrary, the customer is always right!

I am confused, if there is no legislation that specifically deals with the subject then there is no 'deactivation'. There is, as you say, no law for it. How can you then argue 'I have been threatened with prosecution in the past, but they never followed through because they knew I was doing it correctly"?

​How can you do it 'correctly' if there is no legislation to guide you?

Originally Posted by inglishill

I am confused, if there is no legislation that specifically deals with the subject then there is no 'deactivation'. There is, as you say, no law for it. How can you then argue 'I have been threatened with prosecution in the past, but they never followed through because they knew I was doing it correctly"?

​How can you do it 'correctly' if there is no legislation to guide you?

Police sent me a letter telling me to stop doing it or they would prosecute me. I ignored the letter as I knew what I was doing did not constitute any offence. The letter was over 20 years ago and I haven't heard from them yet.

I don't need legislation to "guide me" as I read and understand English quite well and make the effort to keep familiar with the law. Legislation does not tell you what you can do, it only tells you what you can't do, and is required to be quite specific and written in "plain English". There is nothing in the law about modifying a firearm to such an extent that it is no longer able to be considered a "firearm" as defined by law. Once it is a non-firearm then possession is not covered by the provisions of the Arms Act or Arms Regulations. You have realise that the law works both ways, a fact that Police have been known to overlook in the past with some of their policies.