Thread: Italians and Firearms

Originally Posted by spada

What's the old saying about stone throwing and glass houses

31 hunters killed in Italy last year That's .05 per 100,000 inhabitants
Guess what NZ's score is .05 per 100,000 inhabitants.

Italy road toll 6.1 per 100,000 inhabitants / 7.3 per 100,000 motor vehicles
NZ road toll 8.5 per 100,000 inhabitants / 12.2 per 100,000 motor vehicles

That doesn’t take into account how urbanised Italy is compared to NZ, we would have far more hunters, and would drive more KM, per capita.

They do have great motorways, if the slip lanes were longer and didn’t have the bridge collapse I’d rate them as the best in Europe.

Originally Posted by MightyBoosh

There are 60 million people in Italy. If there population size was the same as NZ, that would be the equivalent of two deaths in that year. Is that comparable? Otherwise, not to stereotype/generalise, but I have been hunting with Italians (and Greeks), and they were bloody lunatics!

Obviously you have never shot with Russians , now they are lunatics

Heard a few African PH say they would actually take the bolts from Italians clients rifles, they where that bad only giving them back when they had the shot set up.
Never hunted in Italy. Himmm not sure I'm going to either.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I am trying to remember way back to High School history class here, but didn't Muhammad fight with the Jewish tribes and protect them from the Byzantian Romans ? I thought the problems with Israel came after the jewish terrorist Ben Gurion murdered staff at the British embassy and then other Govt officials at the King David Hotel followed with attacks on Palestinians. The Romans of course being Italian so this does not deviate entirely from the thread.

Yes, early in his career when he was weak politically/militarily he had alliances with the Jews. As the boot got on the other foot, he became increasingly hostile towards Jews, not helped by their rejection of his self-proclaimed prophethood, and is modus operandi changed to forced proselytising, enslavement and murdering "the Jew". His followers likewise. Christian Palestinian arabs don't attack Jews or blow themselves up.1

Sadly arabs who formerly lived in Palestine are not integrated by their host nations. In Lebanon for example, they are not allowed to own houses or land - laws were passed to this effect to keep the Jewish-Palestinian grievance alive (source: saw it on Al Jazeera, surprised they broadcast such a damning indictment, to their credit). Israel on the other hand has fully integrated Jews expelled from arab countries, but expulsions in that direction were not talked about in our history lessons.

As for the Romans/Italians. Not sure they are any less safer or not on the roads or out hunting. NZ ranks No 17 in the world in terms of gun ownership, 26.3 guns per 100 persons. Italy ranks No 41, with 14.4 guns per 100. (Source: Wikipedia) But not sure where they get the numbers from. Does not count FAL holders of course, and Italians may of course just have fewer and nicer guns, with slings made of finer leather etc etc. But hey, let's give them of their own medicine and crucify them over their hunting deaths.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Yes, early in his career when he was weak politically/militarily he had alliances with the Jews. As the boot got on the other foot, he became increasingly hostile towards Jews, not helped by their rejection of his self-proclaimed prophethood, and is modus operandi changed to forced proselytising, enslavement and murdering "the Jew". His followers likewise. Christian Palestinian arabs don't attack Jews or blow themselves up.1

Sadly arabs who formerly lived in Palestine are not integrated by their host nations. In Lebanon for example, they are not allowed to own houses or land - laws were passed to this effect to keep the Jewish-Palestinian grievance alive (source: saw it on Al Jazeera, surprised they broadcast such a damning indictment, to their credit). Israel on the other hand has fully integrated Jews expelled from arab countries, but expulsions in that direction were not talked about in our history lessons.

As for the Romans/Italians. Not sure they are any less safer or not on the roads or out hunting. NZ ranks No 17 in the world in terms of gun ownership, 26.3 guns per 100 persons. Italy ranks No 41, with 14.4 guns per 100. (Source: Wikipedia) But not sure where they get the numbers from. Does not count FAL holders of course, and Italians may of course just have fewer and nicer guns, with slings made of finer leather etc etc. But hey, let's give them of their own medicine and crucify them over their hunting deaths.

@Cordite
I think you have got some of this history mixed up. The Roman plan for the Holy land was approved by the Pope around 900AD with attacks on European Jews starting in 1096. The Vatican later negotiated with and financed Muhammad to help annihilate the Jews. But when the Islamic forces captured Jerusalem in the name of the Prophet the Pope was blocked from moving the Vatican there. Muhammad then protected everyone from Rome. So I guess this shows the Italians have always been poor shots as they seem to be to this day
If we could find out actual statistics, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Israel shot more civilians as a percentage than any other nation. What is your opinion of the Talmud decree that 'If a Goy (non jew) strikes a jew then it is right for the jew to kill the Goy because the Goy is not a real Human' unquote ?.
What is your opinion of the Israeli firebombing and sinking of the USS Liberty and machine-gunning of the surviving Coms. staff and crew in lifeboats ?

Originally Posted by spada

What's the old saying about stone throwing and glass houses

31 hunters killed in Italy last year That's .05 per 100,000 inhabitants
Guess what NZ's score is .05 per 100,000 inhabitants.

Italy road toll 6.1 per 100,000 inhabitants / 7.3 per 100,000 motor vehicles
NZ road toll 8.5 per 100,000 inhabitants / 12.2 per 100,000 motor vehicles

Road toll should really be considered per distance travelled to be meaningful - per population or per car doesn't mean much if the time/distance actually driven is different.

Likewise hunting deaths should be per hunter (or per time spent hunting) rather than total population.

@Moa Hunter , you should probably do some research before posting about history - Muhammad lived around 600AD, so suggesting the Vatican was financing him to attack Jews 500 years later looks a bit silly.

Pretty off topic and irrelevant anyway, makes it look like you're just trying to stir up an argument.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

@Moa Hunter , you should probably do some research before posting about history - Muhammad lived around 600AD, so suggesting the Vatican was financing him to attack Jews 500 years later looks a bit silly.

Pretty off topic and irrelevant anyway, makes it look like you're just trying to stir up an argument.

Hey I am trying to remember back to when I was 15 so I might easily have the dates wrong but the basic theme is correct. There were a whole bunch of Roman crusades at different dates. I agree with you re the off-topic. I made a comment about simple rockets and rocket science, see where we are now...

Hmmmm ... Italians and guns - so long as you're wearing Gucci or Armani what's the problem. A little distraction maybe ?!

Italian hunters are notorious for blasting around at pretty much anything. I am not saying it is all of them, but I knew a hunting guide on an estate in Scotland who would refuse to guide Italian hunters for that reason.

French hunters used to be terrible as well ( 1.2 million hunters for a population of 66 millions)
This past season 117 accidents with 17 deaths.
But the numbers of accidents are on a down trend , more and more hunters are now wearing blaze orange and hunters on driven hunts are shooting more and more from hunting platforms.
Wine during hunting lunch is not always helping either.
A lot of accidents happen during driven shooting, where a line of beaters is pushing game toward a line of armed men.( one of the two group has to be in the shape of U so as to maximise the effectiveness of the drive.)

An article about accidents in France ( google translate is your friend)
Chaque année, il y a une centaine d'accidents de chasse en France

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Understanding how rockets work is not 'Woman Science'. In fact simple fireworks are classed as rockets. Even the poor oppressed Palastinians make rudimentary rockets. I am surprised at your response @Cordite, considering you have a German missus

ummmmmm actually they recently made a movie based on true story about that very thing...Kevin Cosner.... and it was indeed women that did the science or at least the mathimatics for the moon landing.
hidden figures...plurry good watch....

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

@Cordite
I think you have got some of this history mixed up. The Roman plan for the Holy land was approved by the Pope around 900AD with attacks on European Jews starting in 1096. The Vatican later negotiated with and financed Muhammad to help annihilate the Jews. But when the Islamic forces captured Jerusalem in the name of the Prophet the Pope was blocked from moving the Vatican there. Muhammad then protected everyone from Rome.

Muhammad died 632 AD, never made it to Jerusalem himself.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

So I guess this shows the Italians have always been poor shots as they seem to be to this day
If we could find out actual statistics, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Israel shot more civilians as a percentage than any other nation.

Maybe, maybe not. There is a constant war going on there after all. Ratio of shootings of persons to killshots may indicate something about the Israelis - but someone may spin it one way ("crap shots") or another ("trying not to kill"). I do wonder about US cop-on-civilian shootings not being higher per capita, but I can't readily find stats especially on Israel, say for 2017. So yes, finding the statistics is a problem as you say. But number of shootings does not tell much else than there is a violent conflict going on.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

What is your opinion of the Talmud decree that 'If a Goy (non jew) strikes a jew then it is right for the jew to kill the Goy because the Goy is not a real Human' unquote ?.

Yuck. It is the Talmud, which is rabbinic commentary, which supposedly supercedes the Torah / Law which is known to most christians as the first five books of the old testament. A bigoted individual who had lost his way wrote that, god knows what negative experiences it stemmed from, but wrong nevertheless, and a lot of horrendous attitudes in this. It aptly illustrates God's statement recorded in the Torah to the nation of Israel: "I did not choose you because you are a righteous people, for you are a stiffnecked people". Rejecting the prevailing paradigm of the Arab-Israeli conflict does not mean I believe the sun shines out of every hairy Jewish butt - far from it.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

What is your opinion of the Israeli firebombing and sinking of the USS Liberty and machine-gunning of the surviving Coms. staff and crew in lifeboats ?

Pretty effective attack as attacks go, but wrong ship. USS Liberty spy ship attacked 1967 in a war zone. 34 crewmen killed, 171 wounded, ship not sunk as attack was called off when it was realised she was non-Egyptian as her numbers were not in cursive arabic style. Here is image of it day after the attack in 1967, during the 6-day war. Machine gunning of crew in lifeboats was not alleged by any witness. I have no unexpected opinion on this sad episode: poor communication, too close to the wrong place at the wrong time, USS Liberty looked like an Egyptian auxillary ship, mistaken identity, friendly fire, but attack called off before it turned to annihilation/sinking. Americans do horrendous "friendly fire" incidents too and they did accept this was one where they were on the receiving end.

USS Liberty, day after attack.

Egyptian Auxillary Ship Emira Fauza

@Cordite, Re the Liberty, What you have quoted is the official story. Saw a doco where survivors were interviewed about their experiences. The whole inquiry became a cover-up with the sworn testimonies of surviving officers not included in the official findings. The ship had clearly identified herself. There was no mistaken identity, more it was Israel not wanting their coms intercepted. Much the same as when the US bombs hotels full of reporters to prevent information gathering. We are lucky to live here in NZ !!

re US Liberty one theory is that it was a false flag attack by Israel to make it look like the Egyptians did it, to get the US to attack Israel. It nearly worked, LBJ had planes flying to Egypt but they were re-called.
The planes and torpedo boats had no markings, and the first Israeli fighter pilot identified and radioed back the ship was US. He refused to attack and returned to base and was arrested.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/but-...-her-1.5492908

The Israelis have a history of this. In 1954 Israel planted bombs in buildings and left evidence to make it look like Egypt did it, but one of the bombs went off early and the Israelis were discovered. In 1986 they sent a false radio signal from Tripoli to make it look like the Libyans were behind the Berlin (?) discotheque bombing to get Reagan to bomb Libya.

Here are a few others from other countries as well
https://www.mondialisation.ca/fifty-...ttacks/5505411

Originally Posted by chainsaw

Hmmmm ... Italians and guns - so long as you're wearing Gucci or Armani what's the problem. A little distraction maybe ?!
Attachment 97491

Nice Bazookas. While the guns appear fake the bazookas appear to be the real thing !!