Thread: Licensing and mental illness

I think people are missing that the source of the issue in the US is the absolute lack of anyform of public health care, with only criminally mentally ill and those with families that can afford some kind of treatment/care have any access to what anybody here does. There shootings are more a result of the lack of mental health reforms and less the availabillity of guns. In fact if you read into the stats areas with higher gun ownership have less mass shootings and mass shootings have less victims when stopped by anther armed individual than by the police. It seems backwards but in the case of the states more people carrying is safer in a sense. Side note if you remove gun deaths resultant from self defence the stats are much lower and even with all this gun crime the murder rate is still comparable per capita to Japan which has Zero personal gun ownership

We all ready vet potential candidates for fals pretty well, and as formentioned the police do remove firearms from people during bouts of depression if someone states that there may be a risk.

In short I dont think what happens in the US regarding shootings or mental health really has any correlation to NZ

Slightly on topic about murders, not exactly mental illness. But just an informational video.

https://youtu.be/pELwCqz2JfE

Originally Posted by steven

I just quit an interest group as frankly I think too many of the posters in there shouldnt be near a knife either let alone own Cat-E firearms.

If your (a) who I think you are, and (b) it's the farcebook group I'm thinking off-I wondered why your name had gone gray

DSM as a diagnostic tool in mental illness is also under a cloud due to the "close" relationship between physicians /writers and the american health insurance industry
ie he sc ores 5/10 markers theres the illness and my bill ,wheres my cheque??the individual doesnt figure in that equation.
The reason mental illness is so difficult (and in answer to you massive )is that there are no clearcut pigeonholes.ie someone is depressed-?psychotic ,reactive ,postpartum etc etc oh but hold on they also show strong schizophrenic features,oh and a past history of drug/alcohol abuse plus there IQ is dull normal. dont recoil this is not uncommon and its a very bloody arduous process to actually untangle that web and decide where to start planning treatment and most important today where are we going to go with this person.society today care more about their arseholes than those unfortunate to suffer mental illness(90%of which is due to circumstances beyo nd that persons control)-
The NZ police have only recently incorporated extensive mental health training in their basic phase .also CHCH and counties amnukau bases have specialists mental heatlh nurses installed in their watchhouses to deal with such people and liase with police ,justice ,corrections ,and hospitals.
I hope this gives you some idea of what is a very valid but bloody complicated problem

Mental illness, It's a horrible word which nobody wants to talk about and yet it is becoming more and more common. Almost everyone could be diagnosed with a mental illness (at some stage) if they went to see a doctor while feeling down,relationship issues, family issues, health issues, money issues. Does it make them unfit to hold a FAL? Sometimes maybe, sometimes not. The problem I see with mental illness is it's very hard to diagnose compered to a broken bone, cancer, etc. I know of kid's that have been diagnosed with ADHD but instead of taking the drugs they changed there diet and are now completely different kid's. I also know a few people that have committed suicide, which now seems to be the latest trend according to the latest stats most of the people I know off thou you would have never thought would do it eg: man with young kids, no money problems and seemed happy then other side off the coin a young boy who had tried at least three times before he got it right.
What's my point? I guess I'm trying to say unless they change the FAL to a 12 month re-newel with a full medical there will be plenty of people out there with a mental illness with a FAL because a lot of shit can happen in 10 years. Like what's been said before, guns don't kill people, people kill people! Lets face it guns aren't hard to get hold off with no FAL and I think they always will be. And while we are there trying to stop people with a mental illness getting there FAL maybe we should be drug testing everyone with a FAL? maybe once a month? P is bad shit but seems to be every where.
Any way, if they want to kill they will, with or with out guns!
I think the big question should be.......how the fuck has society got so fuckin bad????? pricks out there beating the living fuck out of people, rape, murder, bomb threats, parents beating there babies, bulling, shit I could go on all day.
I have a feeling that it has a lot to do with things like social media, movies, cartoons, PlayStation games and ok........... Tinder has had a couple bad wraps also.

Knives cause much more damage and deaths in NZ than firearms! The problem of abuse and killing will never be sorted, there are to many variables. When a guy king hits an unknown person and puts them in hospital and gets diversion, there's buggar all hope.

@kotuku well said mate re you last post,

Over the years the scope of mental illness has expanded to capture a raft of disorders, such so that it's now being referred to as mental distress, which I believe accurately reflects that sometimes, some people have no control of their situation and need the help and support of others.
We can only hope that sometime in the near future government, private and community agencies can work through their red tape to be able to share information amongst each other on a more consistent basis than they are currently permitted to reduce potential risks.

Screamo youre right re the media ,but IMHO a hell of a lot is these anonymous antisocial websites or F Bpages that kids become influenced by and alas as has been seen act out on either because of bullying or that greatest of all adolescent angst -losing face amongst your peers.
Now Im no web genius -in fact I detest these things ,so really only use em if necessary, but Im astute enough to listen to my kids talking and occasionally they will show me stuff which frankly if it was in the open should result in the author being arrested pronto.
had a young bloke and his not too bright lady friend here a while ago getting some car work done by my son.
these two were raving about the usual stuff ,but in a marked antisocial vein-
Son mentioned a suicide -little cow burst out laughing saying the victim should have smashed her face in before she finally succumbed.
Sons mate ,no goody two shoes himself ,looks at me ,then says to these two 'this is .....old man -hard hua ,guess what he does.?"
Sheiit the little cow turned about six shades of green ,wouldn't look at me and jumped in laddy bucks car.
He tood there looking at me as though hed shat on my driveway, so I let him stew for a while whilst I drank a beer and just looked.
A few "polite" words were spoken and views exchanged.
Later I heard that she had txt my son saying she was scared shitless of me!!
My only conclusion is a lot of this crap is spoken for image -not really thought through in its entirety ,but hey we all do that periodically.
anyhow its mental health awareness week so good on you guys for bringin the subject up and relating your own POV or experiences.
always good to get another POV.Remember if you do have any queries im more than happy to help if you so desire.

the ADHD scenario is also about as clear as a basket full of babies soiled nappies.
I hear frequently of assorted experts accusing the establishment of overdiagnosing and hence inept medicating, but at the same time ,they themselves offer so called natural remedies.
Now don't get me wrong Im strictly neutral theres always two sides to every story.
however Iam inclined to the POV that with internet access and info with resultant hysteria there is a tendency to rely on not too infallible DIY diagnosis ,without professional investigation.
alas some GPs obviously cave in to pressures and go along with this just for their own pace of mind.

In France, target and recreational shooters with equivalent of B cat and E cat guns have to renew their licence every year and get it signed by their GP. ( that occurs for about 145000 participants and voters).
Hunters who mostly got A. Cat type firearms do not need to see their GP when they renew their annual hunting licence.(1200000voters)

Now the signature of your GP on the licence is a bit like a warrant of fitness. It only says that you are good to go on the day of the issue!
You can have a break down 3 days/ weeks/ months later , so what ?
This is in place because politics don't want to be held responsible in case of a problem, so the GP get the blame if things go wrong.
The shooting licences and right to get B and E cat are issued by the ministry of Sports... One could imagine the scandal "Pumped up" by the media in case of a mass shooting for exemple ? By having the GP signing the licence the ministry is not " responsible"!

Hunters having a very strong voting voice are left with alone and do not have the GP burden. They also pay up to the equivalent of $nz800 to renew their licence every year, so that is a lot of money that goes to the ministry of Agriculture( in charge of the hunters)

Another group of people having guns are the police forces. Nearly 250000 people. I am not sure if they have to see a GP every year but About a 100 of them commit suicide every year and a good proportion with their service handgun.

In the general public mind ,you d think police forces should be composed of strong minded people, that you can trust for having a gun . But helas, even in this group it is hard to predict who has personal problems and can blow up a fuse and take their own life.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

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In hindsight no ifs but a lotta but

LOL you must admitted most of you are crazy on here .you love firearms that others don't ,you want to kill wild animals for not reason, you shoot at targets to prove you can hit them . you lay in the lounge rubbing you rifle with a rag dreaming of what you are going to shoot next .You spend large amounts of money to have the best toys and gear . you plan your next trips before you have already had your first trip .You sight your rifle in but cant hit the target so you sell it to buy something that does i sit and wait to pick up the deals from shops where rifles have been returned because they don't shoot well . Thank you for your misfortune .

On the otherside i have been through a lot of over the last 18 months. i was picked up by police, had time in jail due to false statements by x . I had my firearms taken and returned . Never did i ever think of using firearms to hurt people even under the stress i have been through .Depression effect every body at some stage ,but if you have it i am one person who will find where it has come from . i spend time doing a back ground check on your life right back as far as i can . 95% of the time, depression comes from your family back ground and family can be to blame

Kawekakid

us hunters are an incredibly kind bunch






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Much to think about here as firearms owners . . the guts of our system really is "we're all part of the system" and we all have a responsibility to all other firearms owners specifically and society in general to act if we think someone may harm another person with (or without for that matter) a firearm.

Having come across one violent death involving a firearm (that I couldn't have done anything about) it certainly sharpened up my awareness and determination to act should any similar situation present itself.

The mention of the French system is very interesting, with a relatively high number of firearms and firearms owners, their level of firearms incidents (suicides/murders etc as opposed to terrorism) is low (as I understand it) compared to the US and many other countries. The US really is not a firearms problem as such, its societal and goes very much along the lines of "I have a problem, power/force/violence is the way to solve problems".. The French are proactive in terms of mental health/anti-societal issues at both a police and civilian level.

The guts of it is that we all need to be alert of those among us with firearms who are not well or in a bad situation and as Mikee did, take some action. There will almost certainly never be the "right thing to do" so ones popularity is always going to be at stake.