Thread: Mistaken for game hunting accidents and human factors report

Where did the 20 min looking at target come from???
Sgt Berryman said he took two to three minutes with his naked eye and his rifle scope to confirm it was deer, moving from left to right as he watched.
Also i believe the range was quoted at 40m not 20m.
If we are going to debate this we really need to start with the correct facts.

don't know, just guilty of repeating without checking... can someone confirm..? we cannot determine the correct outcome from that case anyway, we have to accept the court does that job...

I haven't read the original report linked by the OP as I don't have Dropbox but to me the original post was about understanding the human factors at play here rather than laying blame or consequence.
Highlighting the way in which the brain rationalises visual illusions that can be complicated by simple things such as mood, weather, light, fatigue, pressure, sound, expectation, past experience, inexperience etc etc can only be a good thing.

Hi, this is a public folder so you don't need Dropbox yourself. Just click on the link and you'll find the file is the top one in the list.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kdopwcxcq...4jKDuly_a?dl=0

I see the file is also on the hunter safety lab website

Cheers

Regarding the court's decision I'd prefer to wait and read the judgment. And of course what really happened and "the facts" that can be proven are not necessarily the same.

I endorse on2it's closing footnote

"Regarding the court's decision I'd prefer to wait and read the judgment. And of course what really happened and "the facts" that can be proven are not necessarily the same."

Originally Posted by R93

Good post Savage 1.
I can't speak for the future but think I am well past the stage of where it could have happened to me. When every animal was worth a dollar I took some shots, that on reflection, were not ideal.
I have no need to shoot as many animals as I used to and I generally only shoot yearlings for the table. I have not shot a red stag in the rut for years due to not finding what I want.

Someone brought it up earlier about eyesight. Mine is not as sharp as it used to be and I spend even more time because of that, looking at a deer before I decide whether to shoot it.

I do less and less bush hunting as the deer numbers are high and if I do it is mainly during the rut. I need to get a good look at a stag before I would take it as it would have to be in the 320DS class. I'm still looking😆
I don't give a toss about coming home empty handed. I have done so for the last 8 red roars.
I really struggle to believe you can study something at 20m for a period of time and decide to shoot. I have hunted just about every species of deer in NZ. I have yet to come across 1 of them that would not be on edge with me being that close for any length of time.
In my experience deer do not stand still unless trying to suss you out or they are asleep. Their mannerisms and movements are unique in the bush.
I am very familiar with human factors being a pilot. In aviation it relates to things that trick our perception and the like. I do not believe the mistakes made in aviation due to human factors relate to hunting no matter what any expert tries to say.

I empithise with the bloke who shot his son but I believe he was careless and did not see a deer or study his target with any detail.
It could happen to anyone that's a fact but if it happens to me I would have failed to observe the one rule that would prevent it happening. Not because I seen something imaginary.

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The 20mins is a Chinese whisper, it was claimed 2 mins. Even that may be stretching it though.
Im a believer in the possibility of human factors having a significant influence on these events. Like you I studied it in aviation but Iv also researched it a bit further and Iv had plenty of little non hunting related events that have convinced me. Dealing with anything human brain related is going to have contradictions and I understand why some don't agree, it could well be that its not something that we are all susceptible to, but getting hunters to understand it might go some way to reducing the number of events. It sure as hell cant hurt. Its not about a defense after the fact but making people aware. As you know I'm with you on the identifying the animal well beyond just "its a deer" Like you I want to know what sex, approx age ect.

Fair enough. Just because I have not experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen for others I spose.

I have spent ages trying to identify bushes, stumps and things that were the right colour and shape of a deer in the bush and in low light.
But something in my gut always told me I was wrong. Not once did any of those things get up and run off or get shot.

How many of you have searched for an item in your workshop or some other place and not been able to find it. Then go back later and it was sitting in plain sight all the time. The eyes saw it but the brain did not process the information.
Your brains are a very complicated organ and nobody fully understands how it works.
I believe the hunter truly believes he saw a deer prior to pulling the trigger.
How do we prevent it happening again?
I dont know the answer

Originally Posted by R93

Fair enough. Just because I have not experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen for others I spose.

I have spent ages trying to identify bushes, stumps and things that were the right colour and shape of a deer in the bush and in low light.
But something in my gut always told me I was wrong. Not once did any of those things get up and run off or get shot.

I think a lot of us have had the same experience but then I look at traffic lights and see red and green and I have a mate who sees both as grey, color blindness is understood today. Dyslexia was unknown until recent times but its now well accepted. We are all wired a little differently but I fear most will have no idea if it could happen to them untill it does.

Originally Posted by BobGibson

How many of you have searched for an item in your workshop or some other place and not been able to find it. Then go back later and it was sitting in plain sight all the time. The eyes saw it but the brain did not process the information.
Your brains are a very complicated organ and nobody fully understands how it works.
I believe the hunter truly believes he saw a deer prior to pulling the trigger.
How do we prevent it happening again?
I dont know the answer

Happens to me all the time. But I have seen the little green men that do it😆

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Hi, unfortunately there is not a written judgment for the Invercargill discharge without conviction but I have requested the judge's sentencing notes.
There's some discussion about whether the police might appeal the decision but as I understand it, appeals can only be on questions of law not questions of fact (what happened).
The reason for this is because the appeal court is not in a position to listen to the evidence, assess the credibility of the witnesses etc.
And in this country, along with many others based on hundreds of years of English law, the rule against double jeopardy remains. In other words, you can't be tried for the same thing twice.
P.S. I'm not a practicing lawyer so take my comments with a grain of salt.