Thread: Morrinsville Shooting

Anyone who shoots at cops is fair game in my book

Along the same vein.. This is the guy that tried to kill that cop the other night in the Coromandel. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014714474610

Truly, what do you actually do with scum like this guy and Heke? How much misery has this cunt caused? How many properties burgled, people stood over, cars nicked etc? Putting the fucker in a hole where he can't fuck anyone else's life isn't a loss in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Nickoli

@Cordite - I have advocated before for outsourcing our "corrections" (I use the title with a massive grain of salt....) to be outsourced to China or Saudi Arabia: people like Heke deserve no less than a first class ticket on their way to such "rehabilitation."
That no one was killed by this ar$eholes actions is a moot point: he has proven that he cannot abide by the social contract, his history has proven this...why take the chance? Chris Cahill wouldn't take the chance on law abiding firearms licence holders - let alone criminals (and has continued to focus on us) - someone with this level of disregard for the law gets what he deserves with no harm to others - so what?
Genuine question by the way - take out the emotive crap with previous Police shootings... what right does a criminal have where a demonstrated disregard for the law and human life has been shown? A dog who attacked someone would be shown less leniency....what's the difference?

@Nickoli,

As you rightly say, Heke has shown disregard for human life, which is bad. But once we take offense at that we cannot simultaneously think of treating a human like a dog. The two are opposites. Treating a human like a dog is disregard for human life. Avoid that path with extreme prejudice.

In the end, what you feel about a human life vs an animal life is a philosophical, religious, origin type question that you have to consider and make up your mind about. Only do step carefully if your conclusion is at odds with the law of the land (which is based on one kind of view).

Originally Posted by Cordite

@Nickoli,

As you rightly say, Heke has shown disregard for human life, which is bad. But once we take offense at that we cannot simultaneously think of treating a human like a dog. The two are opposites. Treating a human like a dog is disregard for human life. Avoid that path with extreme prejudice.
.

So the options are:

1) Let this guy out, he reoffends again, we lock him up briefly, out again, ruins someone else's life, repeat (current tactic)
2) Park him in a cage (expensive)
3) Cheer when he checks out early. (win for everyone else)

Originally Posted by Cordite

@Nickoli,

As you rightly say, Heke has shown disregard for human life, which is bad. But once we take offense at that we cannot simultaneously think of treating a human like a dog. The two are opposites. Treating a human like a dog is disregard for human life. Avoid that path with extreme prejudice.

In the end, what you feel about a human life vs an animal life is a philosophical, religious, origin type question that you have to consider and make up your mind about. Only do step carefully if your conclusion is at odds with the law of the land (which is based on one kind of view).

@Cordite: we are back to outsourcing our corrections to Saudi/China etc.
I have no problem thinking of people like this as animals where they have proven to be dangerous to society, incapable of living within society and incapable of working with others productively. This piece of shit can be let out to hurt others as you seem to advocate (bit of a stretch, but based on his history and trajectory - completely fair) or can be removed from society with a first class (trade deal approved and certified) ticket to Saudi/China justice....hell - we could even pay a token living cost for this a$$hole - regardless of whether the subcontracting jurisdiction keeps the prick alive or not...
I don't see a downside?
Please tell me you have an alternative argument...

Originally Posted by Tommy

Along the same vein.. This is the guy that tried to kill that cop the other night in the Coromandel. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014714474610

Truly, what do you actually do with scum like this guy and Heke? How much misery has this cunt caused? How many properties burgled, people stood over, cars nicked etc? Putting the fucker in a hole where he can't fuck anyone else's life isn't a loss in my opinion.

So much for being innocent until convicted in a court of law.

Originally Posted by Nickoli

@Cordite: we are back to outsourcing our corrections to Saudi/China etc.
I have no problem thinking of people like this as animals where they have proven to be dangerous to society, incapable of living within society and incapable of working with others productively. This piece of shit can be let out to hurt others as you seem to advocate (bit of a stretch, but based on his history and trajectory - completely fair) or can be removed from society with a first class (trade deal approved and certified) ticket to Saudi/China justice....hell - we could even pay a token living cost for this a$$hole - regardless of whether the subcontracting jurisdiction keeps the prick alive or not...
I don't see a downside?
Please tell me you have an alternative argument...

@Nickoli

I'm totally with you on his trajectory. And I reckon you will of course agree with me that after a score years in prison, if he does make it out, he will be older and probably not that healthy either (probably didn't care much about his cardiovascular risk factors during life on the outside). Problem largely sorted of his own doing.

If Heke had been shot dead or sent into a wheelchair by a cop bullet, there would be no end of whingeing from various brown-skinned racist groups, inquiries, stress on the cop(s) for having shot a person (predictable mental stress) as well as Police internal investigations which will cause no end of mental wear on good men / women. Every so often a journo would dig up another angle on that "Morrinsville Maori Shooting". No end ever in sight... and you can't speak too badly about someone sitting in a weelchair, never mind someone deceased. In short, good outcome it played out as it did with everyone alive and the matter being able to be dealt with efficiently through the courts. Saying that, if anything like this happens in future I guess our cops may have quicker access to guns and the perpetrator will not be able to be brought before the courts.

In terms of alternative argument, the question you asked is whether to treat other humans like animals. If you treat another human as an animal, you have downgraded your own human status to that exact same worth. You're of the same race as Heke, so how you treat him paints a similar invitation on your own back. Straight logic.

As for a solution, fairness IMHO means proportionality of punishment. Judicial capital punishment for murder is proportional. Vindictive punishment, like the stocks or cutting off thieves' hands is animal behaviour. Mohammedan societies do not go for the proportionality concept enshrined in "an eye for an eye" and if you ask for a downside it would be pandering to such barbaric societies, by ever holding them up as good examples to follow!

Originally Posted by systolic

So much for being innocent until convicted in a court of law.

Hi Lee,

3) is the bonus prize

Just had a confirmation that the officer did shoot back through his windshield.
Sure this will come out in the trial. But due to it bing an ongoing investigation those involved can't comment.

Originally Posted by Sideshow

Just had a confirmation that the officer did shoot back through his windshield.
Sure this will come out in the trial. But due to it bing an ongoing investigation those involved can't comment.

Does match up with the pic as you said previously, will be interesting to hear the details if/when they come out.

Originally Posted by Savage1

None of those shots were fired from inside the car, those guys guys wouldn't have anywhere near enough time to get a gun and they were likely jumping out already to run down the fleeing driver on foot, they were all incoming. I don't know who gave you that theory, but it's not accurate.

Going from what @Savage1 said none of the shots were taken from inside the patrol car - Where did you source your confirmation @Sideshow?

@Sasquatch as per my previous post I can't say!

But have a look at some of the photos of that police officers car.
If all those shots where in coming they would have broken more than just the front window.
Also the strike marks are all wrong for incoming! The two impact holes above the stirring wheel are incoming as you can see from the comet like tails above the house holes.
Glass dose not lie it show you in which direction it was broken from.

Also if you look closely at this pic you would think that with incoming you would see impact marks on the seats.
Remember that the rounds would be tumbling by now our starting to mushroom so that head rest behind really should look a little worse for wear.

Yes it dose depend on the angles but then the back window would have broken if it missed the head rest.
Our the side windows.
From the photos shown in the media this has not happened.
Cheers

Originally Posted by Sideshow

@Sasquatch as per my previous post I can't say!

But have a look at some of the photos of that police officers car.
If all those shots where in coming they would have broken more than just the front window.
Also the strike marks are all wrong for incoming! The two impact holes above the stirring wheel are incoming as you can see from the comet like tails above the house holes.
Glass dose not lie it show you in which direction it was broken from.
Attachment 74984
Also if you look closely at this pic you would think that with incoming you would see impact marks on the seats.
Remember that the rounds would be tumbling by now our starting to mushroom so that head rest behind really should look a little worse for wear.
Attachment 74985
Yes it dose depend on the angles but then the back window would have broken if it missed the head rest.
Our the side windows.
From the photos shown in the media this has not happened.
Cheers

@Sideshow, @Sasquatch,

I count about seventeen bullet holes ahead of the front passenger seat. Say...how many rounds in a Glock 17?

Typical glock mag would be 17-19 rounds, can't remember exactly. More than 15 though.

G17 standard capacity mags are 17 rounds. I don't know if NZ police are issues standard magazines though.