Thread: Mountain Safety Council Firearms Course

If you guys put as much energy into improving the MSC course as you do into arguing with each other then I think that we will have a fucking Rolls Royce of a system real soon

Originally Posted by 308

If you guys put as much energy into improving the MSC course as you do into arguing with each other then I think that we will have a fucking Rolls Royce of a system real soon

No, I don't put much of my time or energy into this 'discussion' - I've got more useful things to do with it.

For instance, over recent weeks, because of availability issues, I've taken three firearms licensing sessions at the local police station. All the applicants passed the test without any assistance from me, beyond orally clarifying a few test questions. They all thanked me when they departed, and sounded like they really meant it.

Hmmm - must be something wrong here. Surely they should have all slouched out scowling and muttering things like:

"Hopeless instructor. No understanding of adult education. Didn't even mention some things that are in the Arms Code".
"Hopeless course. Didn't have a formulated structure. Didn't cater for all of auditory, visual, and kinesthetic learning abilities.
"Hopeless venue. Not conducive to an adult learning environment".

Wonder why they didn't?

lol, well said

"If they had to do a THREE session course, the complaints would increase exponentially.".....

let them complain as much as they like, if thats what it takes to get a FAL....they will have to do it......comes under the heading...'TOUGH SHIT'.......

Redrover,
Thank you for your imput and for volunteering your time.

It is discouraging to see you descend into petty name calling.

I am disappointed that you are so opposed to even the idea of improving the course.

Best of luck.

Originally Posted by Koshogi

Redrover,
Thank you for your imput and for volunteering your time.

It is discouraging to see you descend into petty name calling.

Sorry about that, but even my patience isn't inexhaustible.

Originally Posted by Koshogi

I am disappointed that you are so opposed to even the idea of improving the course.

I am not totally opposed to making ANY improvements to the course - I said that right at the begining. Sometimes I feel a bit frustrated at having to skim over some aspects in order to get through the course in the allotted time. But it's no use for anybody to try making significant changes if the necessary extra resources and manpower are simply not available. At present, they are NOT.

For instance, including demonstrations of how to load and unload, and how to strip, clean, and re-assemble various types of firearms, requires basically functional examples to be available, along with suitable dummy cartridges. In the centres where I have been an instructor, they have generally NOT been available, and requests for them have fallen on deaf ears. I currently take one of my own rifles, plus dummy cartridges for it, to the courses I personally take, so that I can demonstrate some important points. (they do NOT include stripping and re-assembling - I draw the line at that) My fellow instructors won't do this, and if I get too heavy with ordering them around they might well quit. Then I would have a REAL problem! (however, when I look at the log book, it shows that they get about as good a percentage of applicants through the test sucessfully as I do, so perhaps I'm worrying too much)

Furthermore, as I have already alluded to several times, in a number of centres - maybe a large number of them - shortage of instructors willing and able to do just single session courses is a serious problem. Drawing up an expanded and ímproved course is not going to achieve anything if instructors to run it are simply not available.

I could be wrong, but my feeling is that if a deputation of disgruntled NZHS posters marched on police headquarters demanding improved instructors and courses, they would be told:

A) The police are reasonably satisfied with the present licensing system, even if it isn't perfect.

B) The politicians are sufficiently satisfied with it that they are not clamoring for new laws and regulations which would make ownership of sporting arms a whole lot more difficult and a whole lot more expensive.

C) It might be best not to rock the boat too hard, because the outcome might not be what they are hoping for.

It always the same. Those that scream the loudest and criticize the most are usually the last to lift a finger to offer their own time and labour. Every club and organisation has them.

If anyone here doesn't like the current voluntary system and wants to see it improved then the answer is simple. Get off your butts and volunteer yourself. The police are more likely to listen to people who do just that than those who throw rocks from the side lines.

My place , has been referred to as a CAVE , more than once , and my missus , has LONG hair , I donot know what the Question was , BUT , my answer suits ME .

Originally Posted by ChrisF

My place , has been referred to as a CAVE , more than once , and my missus , has LONG hair , I donot know what the Question was , BUT , my answer suits ME .

I don't know what you're smoking m8 but you should probably not smoke it.

After what has happened yesterday to the firearms people in MSC head office and the firearms technical committee there is an opening for someone else to get the contract to supply the course/licence to the Police.

Originally Posted by stug

After what has happened yesterday to the firearms people in MSC head office and the firearms technical committee there is an opening for someone else to get the contract to supply the course/licence to the Police.

Vote for Koshogi, he offers his protection.

i really think a practical 15 shot test must be part of MSC course.

Originally Posted by Breyt

i really think a practical 15 shot test must be part of MSC course.

Why?

Originally Posted by Breyt

i really think a practical 15 shot test must be part of MSC course.

I would be interested to hear your thinking too...

Beware what you wish for, in the UK there is a push by the police for a dsc1, $600, it was takes 3 days, for deer hunters, if you want to hunt on state forest land you have to pay a lease and a minimum of dsc2 $2k, there is a whole industry now offering courses, and slowly the anti gun brigade are pushing for more training, not that a basic gun handling course is a bad thing, but it depends what you want out of it, the NZ course is basic, but then again most of the accidents seem to be experienced (allegedly) hunters not identifying there targets.