Thread: MSC just sacked all its volunteers.

Originally Posted by stug

I spoke to someone highish up in MSC apparently driven by the Police. Police are worried only 140ish active firearms instructors and most over 60. Also worried about inconsistencies in delivery and moderation of the courses.

if that person told you ther was 140 actively delivering, (there is 31 active in only southland! the number is currently just under 500) then he is very likely telling other lies like the lack of a cordinated training and assessment, the lack of new instructors who have to now apply online (go to there web site and try to become a new member.....the site is down, i wonder why?)
lies are being spread to justify their position, but they are still lies, used to discredit all the hard work of the current members.

Originally Posted by ebf

How often did the MSC volunteer instructors undergo continuing training or refreshers ?

To what standard was their competency as instructors and adherence to content assessed ?

I've had both good (bushcraft & river safety) and bad (firearms) experiences with MSC courses....

i am sorry i cant give you numbers now, but the assesment prosess is done about every 2 to 3 years, trainers are vetted by designated vetters to ensure the few islolated cases of a bad experence are not continued.
ongoing training and support was cordinated from msc head office and channeled thru the district cordinators.
the system was going very well untill the new head came along and flicked all the staff who were "the old guard" leaving no support for the districts and thats when they started to quit and go independantly.
the trainers quitting suited him perfectly because it reaffirmed his case that volunteers were "unreliable"
the current 500 ish members deliver approxamatly 12000 licence courses a year, you dont hear about the 11950 "good" sessions, but the 50 bad ones everyone hears about. remember these are volunteers, and they are human. sometimes we all have a bad day.

Originally Posted by muzza

There is a review of the way the Firearms Safety Course is to be delivered. There is a series of roadshows at present to seek input from the approx 450 volunteer Instructors.

The status quo apparently is not an option. None of the three options offered are workable on their own, but the way the current management of MSC is hell-bent on fixing something that isnt broken I would say that we will get a format that will be less effective than the current system.

I take my hat off to the CEO of MSC though - to be the most hated person in the whole Organisation and then go off on a roadshow tour to areas like Gisborne and Tasman where practically all the volunteer instructors have resigned as a vote of no confidence in MSC suggests that he is going through the motions despite what anyone else thinks , and basically fuck all the instructors.

I'm pretty sure my almost 25 years of instructing will be ceasing at the end of this year - I just dont want to be associated with MSC and its lies and misinformation any more. And my guess is many others feel the same .

muzza, firstly i want to say thankyou as a shooter, to you for your years of effort, it is something that i dont think many realise the effort you would have gone thru to offer this service.
secondly, i dearly hope there will be another option for yourself, me and all the other volunteers to change to so we can continue to do our best for the shooting community and msc can get stuffed.

Originally Posted by greghud

yep, the head had a predetermined outcome, the roadshow is a box ticking exercise to cover the consultation process.
msc will be going ahead with option a. 40 part time staff in 45 locations.
the head of the msc dose not hold a FAL
he has no interest in firearms, he is a failed school teacher.
he would not answer even the most basic questions like cost recovery for what was a free service.
this is a hatchet job and its comming from the top.

We were told tonight in Taupo by Nathan Foster, the MSC Acting Operations Manager, that their preferred option at this point is model "A" as you've described above. However, he was absolutely adamant that no final decision had been made on this.

Also, when asked about the number of current active instructors it was around 105. There are many instructors who hold a warrant but no longer instruct.

well, there is 31 active in southland, we were at the meeting last nite, we were told that they havent made there mind up, but it was quite clear to us that the msc have made there mind up.

that leaves 73 for the rest of the country? i am sceptical that those numbers are correct.
no wait, i just realised, everyone quit up north so that mite be correct, remember there is many who have started to deliver independant of the msc.

Form up the NMSC?
New msc.

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They will end up like Water Safety NZ, put out lots of pamphlets and press releases, but not actually stop people drowning.

The only other group that could take over firearms instructing is NZDA. You would need a national group that all ready has the expertise, and national coverage, it would be similar to a HUNTS course.

Originally Posted by stug

They will end up like Water Safety NZ, put out lots of pamphlets and press releases, but not actually stop people drowning. AND wonder why people are still drowning etc etc
The only other group that could take over firearms instructing is NZDA. You would need a national group that all ready has the expertise, and national coverage, it would be similar to a HUNTS course.

Fixed it for ya

Originally Posted by muzza

This is all part of a huge hidden agenda to destroy the MSC as the dominant body in outdoor training in NZ. First off the local branches were disbanded and the outdoors instructors told to f*ck off , and now its firearms time to go the same way. It appears to me that this is a deliberate ploy to get rid of the "old guard" of instructors . Some of these folk have been here since the firearms instructorate began nearly 50 years ago.

Given that the MSC mangement have no idea of what their instructors actually do in the outlying areas - like talking to clubs and groups and having displays at schools etc , and all for free - I can see any of the proposed new systems working because there simply wont be enough people involved to cover the ground.

There was 15 instructors at our Taranaki meeting - thats all the majority of us , and none of the long-standing guys were convinced by the smoke and mirrors... The end of an era.

the bull shit flows like Niagra falls. 15 in taranaki and 31 in southland thats 46, so the remaining 64 deliver for the whole rest of new zealand?

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

We were told tonight in Taupo by Nathan Foster, the MSC Acting Operations Manager, that their preferred option at this point is model "A" as you've described above. However, he was absolutely adamant that no final decision had been made on this.

Also, when asked about the number of current active instructors it was around 105. There are many instructors who hold a warrant but no longer instruct.

That should've read Nathan Watson not Foster. My bad as the youngsters say.

Idea should be floated to NZDA to jump in. Do the firearms related related course, and offer an accompanying hunting/outdoors course in a similar format with an intro to hunts courses?

Good idea AzumitH

Cant someone possibly get all the current guys to start up another org,would take a bit of work but what doesn't. Would be worth it and I bet there would be a lot of support for it. Its been done before. At least there would be a ready skill and volunteer base to work from. Then just ignore the msc management as a bad smell.

Apparently the Police top brass are fully supportive of the MSC new ideas.