Thread: Nazis successfully complete invasion 70 years later

Originally Posted by Ryan

You should probably be more embarrassed and unsettled about the fact that many of today's youth think that Communism is attractive. An ideology that killed infinitely more people in the countries where it was implemented, than their socialist competitors, the National Socialists.

Attachment 94533

Pictured Wellington, September 2017.

Thats is scary. They want National out, but Labour would have to go as would the greens, Act NZ firstand almost every other party as none of them are far enough to the socialist side of things to want to go communist.....Well perhaps the greens do, but they have not said it yet....

Originally Posted by Ryan

You should probably be more embarrassed and unsettled about the fact that many of today's youth think that Communism is attractive. An ideology that killed infinitely more people in the countries where it was implemented, than their socialist competitors, the National Socialists.

Attachment 94533

Pictured Wellington, September 2017.

The Nazi's were not Socialists, despite their name. You couldn't get more right wing than a Nazi.

There is a distinct difference between Socialism and Communism, which is what your equating these people with. They are not the same thing at all.

And also, I will say it again, whenever someone brings up the Nazis these days someone has to bring up Communism and point out they killed even more people, thereby implying that the Nazi's were not so bad. The Germans don't get a pass for Belsen and Auschwitz. This is what is worrying the belittling of Nazi crime, rather then an infatuation of the part of the PC brigade with Socialism as a cause. Don't make the mistake Americans do, where anything Socialist (meaning communist) is anti American. Scandinavia, Canada and New Zealand are very successful socialist nations.

Socialism is a responsible civilised community taking care of its members. Communism is a leveling of society that you need to kill ten per cent of your population to implement.


(Although admittedly, those above have stolen a 1930's Communist-style poster motif)

Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

The Nazi's were not Socialists, despite their name. You couldn't get more right wing than a Nazi.

There is a distinct difference between Socialism and Communism, which is what your equating these people with. They are not the same thing at all.

And also, I will say it again, whenever someone brings up the Nazis these days someone has to bring up Communism and point out they killed even more people, thereby implying that the Nazi's were not so bad. The Germans don't get a pass for Belsen and Auschwitz. This is what is worrying the belittling of Nazi crime, rather then an infatuation of the part of the PC brigade with Socialism as a cause. Don't make the mistake Americans do, where anything Socialist (meaning communist) is anti American. Scandinavia, Canada and New Zealand are very successful socialist nations.

Socialism is a responsible civilised community taking care of its members. Communism is a leveling of society that you need to kill ten per cent of your population to implement.


(Although admittedly, those above have stolen a 1930's Communist-style poster motif)

[Carlsen Highway]
The Nazi's were not Socialists, despite their name. You couldn't get more right wing than a Nazi.
[Ryan]
They are both socialist. Communism (economic socialism) is predicated on class, National Socialism is based on ethnicity or race.

[Carlsen Highway]
There is a distinct difference between Socialism and Communism, which is what your equating these people with. They are not the same thing at all.

[Ryan]
Both are totalitarian regimes. The only distinct difference is in the way that they divide and categorise and control and ultimately kill people.

[Carlsen Highway]
And also, I will say it again, whenever someone brings up the Nazis these days someone has to bring up Communism and point out they killed even more people. thereby implying that the Nazi's were not so bad. The Germans don't get a pass for Belsen and Auschwitz.

[Ryan]
Nobody in their right minds is giving the Nazi regime or what they did a pass. History needs to be taken into context. The Nazi regime only lasted 12 years. You would do well to read upon the initial and superficial effects of communism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
This act was committed well before WW II by Communists who weren’t even of their own people. Subsequent history is replete with the “successes” of communism where it has been successfully (to the detriment of said country), implemented.

[Carlsen Highway]
This is what is worrying the belittling of Nazi crime, rather then an infatuation of the part of the PC brigade with Socialism as a cause. Don't make the mistake Americans do, where anything Socialist (meaning communist) is anti American. Scandinavia, Canada and New Zealand are very successful socialist nations.
[Ryan]
Nobody here, or the reenactors are belittling what the Nazis did. If anything, they are reminding the public that such deeds should not be repeated. None of those countries are socialist nations.

[Carlsen Highway]
Socialism is a responsible civilised community taking care of its members.
[Ryan]
No – your above suggests a preordained arbiter of what dictates a “responsible” and “civilised” community.

I counter that the community takes care of its members based on self-reliance, intercommunication, respect for the values of the host country.

[Carlsen Highway]
Communism is a leveling of society that you need to kill ten per cent of your population to implement.
[Ryan]
That’s how socialism starts, consult Marx’s Theory of History.


(Although admittedly, those above have stolen a 1930's Communist-style poster motif)[/QUOTE]

[Carlsen Highway]
The Nazi's were not Socialists, despite their name. You couldn't get more right wing than a Nazi.
[Ryan]
They are both socialist. Communism (economic socialism) is predicated on class, National Socialism is based on ethnicity or race.

[Carlsen Highway]
There is a distinct difference between Socialism and Communism, which is what your equating these people with. They are not the same thing at all.

[Ryan]
Both are totalitarian regimes. The only distinct difference is in the way that they divide and categorise and control and ultimately kill people.

[Carlsen Highway]
And also, I will say it again, whenever someone brings up the Nazis these days someone has to bring up Communism and point out they killed even more people. thereby implying that the Nazi's were not so bad. The Germans don't get a pass for Belsen and Auschwitz.

[Ryan]
Nobody in their right minds is giving the Nazi regime or what they did a pass. History needs to be taken into context. The Nazi regime only lasted 12 years. You would do well to read upon the initial and superficial effects of communism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
This act was committed well before WW II by Communists who weren’t even of their own people. Subsequent history is replete with the “successes” of communism where it has been successfully (to the detriment of said country), implemented.

[Carlsen Highway]
This is what is worrying the belittling of Nazi crime, rather then an infatuation of the part of the PC brigade with Socialism as a cause. Don't make the mistake Americans do, where anything Socialist (meaning communist) is anti American. Scandinavia, Canada and New Zealand are very successful socialist nations.
[Ryan]
Nobody here, or the reenactors are belittling what the Nazis did. If anything, they are reminding the public that such deeds should not be repeated.

[Carlsen Highway]
Socialism is a responsible civilised community taking care of its members.
[Ryan]
No – your above suggests a preordained arbiter of what dictates a “responsible” and “civilised” community.

I counter that the community takes care of its members based on self-reliance, intercommunication, respect for the values of the host country.

[Carlsen Highway]
Communism is a leveling of society that you need to kill ten per cent of your population to implement.
[Ryan]
That’s how socialism starts, consult Marx’s Theory of History.


(Although admittedly, those above have stolen a 1930's Communist-style poster motif)[/QUOTE]

[Carlsen Highway]
The Nazi's were not Socialists, despite their name. You couldn't get more right wing than a Nazi.
[Ryan]
They are both socialist. Communism (economic socialism) is predicated on class, National Socialism is based on ethnicity or race.

[Carlsen Highway]
There is a distinct difference between Socialism and Communism, which is what your equating these people with. They are not the same thing at all.

[Ryan]
Both are totalitarian regimes. The only distinct difference is in the way that they divide and categorise and control and ultimately kill people.

[Carlsen Highway]
And also, I will say it again, whenever someone brings up the Nazis these days someone has to bring up Communism and point out they killed even more people. thereby implying that the Nazi's were not so bad. The Germans don't get a pass for Belsen and Auschwitz.

[Ryan]
Nobody in their right minds is giving the Nazi regime or what they did a pass. History needs to be taken into context. The Nazi regime only lasted 12 years. You would do well to read upon the initial and superficial effects of communism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
This act was committed well before WW II by Communists who weren’t even of their own people. Subsequent history is replete with the “successes” of communism where it has been successfully (to the detriment of said country), implemented.

[Carlsen Highway]
This is what is worrying the belittling of Nazi crime, rather then an infatuation of the part of the PC brigade with Socialism as a cause. Don't make the mistake Americans do, where anything Socialist (meaning communist) is anti American. Scandinavia, Canada and New Zealand are very successful socialist nations.
[Ryan]
Nobody here, or the reenactors are belittling what the Nazis did. If anything, they are reminding the public that such deeds should not be repeated.

[Carlsen Highway]
Socialism is a responsible civilised community taking care of its members.
[Ryan]
No – your above suggests a preordained arbiter of what dictates a “responsible” and “civilised” community.

I counter that the community takes care of its members based on self-reliance, intercommunication, respect for the values of the host country.

[Carlsen Highway]
Communism is a leveling of society that you need to kill ten per cent of your population to implement.
[Ryan]
That’s how socialism starts, consult Marx’s Theory of History.


(Although admittedly, those above have stolen a 1930's Communist-style poster motif)[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Ryan

[Carlsen Highway]
The Nazi's were not Socialists, despite their name. You couldn't get more right wing than a Nazi.
[Ryan]
They are both socialist. Communism (economic socialism) is predicated on class, National Socialism is based on ethnicity or race.

[Carlsen Highway]
There is a distinct difference between Socialism and Communism, which is what your equating these people with. They are not the same thing at all.

[Ryan]
Both are totalitarian regimes. The only distinct difference is in the way that they divide and categorise and control and ultimately kill people.

[Carlsen Highway]
And also, I will say it again, whenever someone brings up the Nazis these days someone has to bring up Communism and point out they killed even more people. thereby implying that the Nazi's were not so bad. The Germans don't get a pass for Belsen and Auschwitz.

[Ryan]
Nobody in their right minds is giving the Nazi regime or what they did a pass. History needs to be taken into context. The Nazi regime only lasted 12 years. You would do well to read upon the initial and superficial effects of communism:

[/QUOTE]


Seriously?

The Nazis were not socialists. They were FASCISTS. I put that in capitals just to make sure. Someone must have told you this before now. Everybody knows this right? Fascist. They are the textbook definition of fascists. Fascists are extreme right wing groups. Once again: Nazi's = fascists.
They put "socialist"" in their name to try and steal working class members from the Communist groups that were popular at the time. It was a ruse.

I am well aware of the history of Communism, I am a historian. I don't need to read Wikipedia, but thanks for the link. But we were talking about Nazi's. We don't need "but what about the Communists" in the discussion, since the only point to doing that is to belittle the Nazi crimes, whether you intended that or not. I already addressed this in my earlier post but you did it again above when you say the Nazi regime ""only lasted twelve years."" and that history needs ""to be taken in context."
This is offensive, as its on the edge of holocaust denial. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, this reimagining of the Nazi's with comparisons of them being ""not so bad"" compared to Stalin...

Start a thread about Communism somewhere if you want to talk about it, but you should stop making comparisons that come out in favour of Nazi's - in a thread that's about people glorifying Nazis.

This thread started with a link to an incident of someone getting uber-offended at re-enactors of WW2 german soldiers.

Too many nowadays get too offended by a lot of things - verging on and crossing into being oppressive of others. Used to be the privilege of grumpy old men, like Victor Meldrew, but we have a generation of younger social justice warriors / Antifa taking it to an extreme (but by no means a modern phenomenon).

Deliberately setting out to kill another IS deeply depraved - whether we justify it by ethnicity, sexual orientation, social class, mental capacity, political views, gestational age, associations, or just collateral damage. But such is essentially a regularly occurring human activity. "Crimes against humanity" - Tui

As for supposedly inappropriately absolving / humanising the Nazis etc. it is maybe rich at the same time to draw euphemistic distinctions between socialism and communism (I get it the words are sometimes synonymous, other times not, depending on who is doing the talking).

An interesting quickie look at the two words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-1k_MDB4J8

I'm with @Carlsen Highway in his distaste for anything with a swastika on it. It is an evil symbol as far as I'm concerned - but I'd maybe get a different opinion if I asked an Asian buddhist. What if the Nazis had used a normal Cross as their symbol? Hey, wait, their national flag was a white cross on a red background. Like the oriental buddhist, I'm not put off the cross for the reason of the Nazi Reich use of it, it means so much more than their distortion could ever undo. Also, I own a Japanese Type 38 with an intact crysanthemum - did it get used to bayonet some pregnant woman, or a hospital patient in his bed? But the Crysanthemum exists on, it's on the front of Japanese Passports to this date. My Neighbour has a Mosin, was it used to keep Ukrainian rural folk from entering the cities for food? At least the Russians have gotten rid of that hammer and sickle on their flag now. My Lee Enfields, was one of them used to strip Jewish settlers of their weapons before they drove on into an ambush? A bit blind and self-righteous to re-enact dressed as a British Empirialist soldier, really. British KZ Lager for the Boers? Drives you nuts, but there's dried blood everywhere if you go want to go looking. Again, very very human.

Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

Seriously?

The Nazis were not socialists. They were FASCISTS. I put that in capitals just to make sure. Someone must have told you this before now. Everybody knows this right? Fascist. They are the textbook definition of fascists. Fascists are extreme right wing groups. Once again: Nazi's = fascists.
They put "socialist"" in their name to try and steal working class members from the Communist groups that were popular at the time. It was a ruse.

I am well aware of the history of Communism, I am a historian. I don't need to read Wikipedia, but thanks for the link. But we were talking about Nazi's. We don't need "but what about the Communists" in the discussion, since the only point to doing that is to belittle the Nazi crimes, whether you intended that or not. I already addressed this in my earlier post but you did it again above when you say the Nazi regime ""only lasted twelve years."" and that history needs ""to be taken in context."
This is offensive, as its on the edge of holocaust denial. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, this reimagining of the Nazi's with comparisons of them being ""not so bad"" compared to Stalin...

Start a thread about Communism somewhere if you want to talk about it, but you should stop making comparisons that come out in favour of Nazi's - in a thread that's about people glorifying Nazis.

Are you actually an accredited historian? Or just trying your hand at comedy?

Instead of pearl clutching and breathlessly repeating the same rants about being "offended" and "holocaust denial", re-read my posts. All of your above accusations were previously addressed.

Seriously?

The Nazis were not socialists. They were FASCISTS. I put that in capitals just to make sure. Someone must have told you this before now. Everybody knows this right? Fascist. They are the textbook definition of fascists. Fascists are extreme right wing groups. Once again: Nazi's = fascists.
They put "socialist"" in their name to try and steal working class members from the Communist groups that were popular at the time. It was a ruse.

I am well aware of the history of Communism, I am a historian. I don't need to read Wikipedia, but thanks for the link. But we were talking about Nazi's. We don't need "but what about the Communists" in the discussion, since the only point to doing that is to belittle the Nazi crimes, whether you intended that or not. I already addressed this in my earlier post but you did it again above when you say the Nazi regime ""only lasted twelve years."" and that history needs ""to be taken in context."
This is offensive, as its on the edge of holocaust denial. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, this reimagining of the Nazi's with comparisons of them being ""not so bad"" compared to Stalin...

Start a thread about Communism somewhere if you want to talk about it, but you should stop making comparisons that come out in favour of Nazi's - in a thread that's about people glorifying Nazis.[/QUOTE]

All Totalitarianism is bad mmmmmmmmmmmkay

Seriously?

The Nazis were not socialists. They were FASCISTS. I put that in capitals just to make sure. Someone must have told you this before now. Everybody knows this right? Fascist. They are the textbook definition of fascists. Fascists are extreme right wing groups. Once again: Nazi's = fascists.
They put "socialist"" in their name to try and steal working class members from the Communist groups that were popular at the time. It was a ruse.

I am well aware of the history of Communism, I am a historian. I don't need to read Wikipedia, but thanks for the link. But we were talking about Nazi's. We don't need "but what about the Communists" in the discussion, since the only point to doing that is to belittle the Nazi crimes, whether you intended that or not. I already addressed this in my earlier post but you did it again above when you say the Nazi regime ""only lasted twelve years."" and that history needs ""to be taken in context."
This is offensive, as its on the edge of holocaust denial. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, this reimagining of the Nazi's with comparisons of them being ""not so bad"" compared to Stalin...

Start a thread about Communism somewhere if you want to talk about it, but you should stop making comparisons that come out in favour of Nazi's - in a thread that's about people glorifying Nazis.[/QUOTE]
the
New Zealand is the most libertarian country in the world, which makes it the most far right country in the world. NZ pioneered socialism, making them us most far left country. I would suggest this is because political terms like left and right are for politics, and thus are not required to make any sense. In a libertarian world, the economy is largely composed of collectives and cooperatives and whatnot, (NZs meat processors, irrigation companies, etc etc). As in communism. Likewise, in a libertarian country you can collectively decide to pool money and give it to poor people (ie, welfare). So extreme right and extreme left, in terms of economics come full circle. Most of the communist and libertarian youth have the same political position, they just don't understand it.

The real argument is central planning and command and control economies. These run head long into physics, where they fight an endless battle with entropy they will inevitably lose. Much of that entropy comes from the fact people are the weak link. In order to get the system to run right, people must behave in a predictable fashion. Thus, the ultimate battle of a centrally planned economy, left or right, is getting the people to behave as numbers in a panning model. The only way to do that is authoritarianism and totalitarianism. This is why Russia has 48 million hectares of prime temperate farmland out of production to this day. Nature won't play the game.

I think you will find a good percentage of the modern internet Nazis are Jews having a good laugh.

There were lots of those posters all down Courtenay Place, several students walking about wearing similar shirts.

Anyway, be that as it may - if someone wanted to dress up in a period correct uniform of a Red Army soldier with red stars and reenact the Battle of Berlin for example, then have at it. Historical reenactors in this country don't just wear German uniforms, they were WW I and WW II Commonwealth uniforms too.

Wasn't that firefighter who planted the fake bombs in Hamilton a few years ago an SS re-enactor?

Originally Posted by systolic

Wasn't that firefighter who planted the fake bombs in Hamilton a few years ago an SS re-enactor?

The SS is not known for planting fake bombs. He must have been re-enacting something else.

Most of the reenactors I have met personally, act out many different roles from many different nations, not exclusively Wehrmacht/Waffen SS.

Anyway, antisemitism shall always be with us, it is pretty mainline and fashionable - Not just available in red white and black, also available in "anti-zionism" palette.

There is quite a marked resurgence in people identifying with the far left though. There are armies of brain dead minions that will berate you and call you far right/literally Hitler/Nazi/Bigot/KKK/white trash... what ever for even slightly disagreeing with their world view. I don't ever remember people being as polarized they are now. I couldn't imagine living my life so offended all the time.

Apologies for the double post - I'm unable to edit it.