Thread: New gun security laws

Originally Posted by Skitsokiwi

I thought it was a bit strange thats why I asked. Might go in and talk to one of the guys I know there during the weekend, see if I can get a look at this apparent letter.

@Skitsokiwi

If us do get a peek at it, take a photo of it an post it up for us all to see.

Cheers
Pete

Originally Posted by stumpy

i had a police check 2 weeks ago , guy looked at the safe , noted its rounded edges (as he stated you cant get sharp edge bends on 6mm or more metal) and was fine for the goodies it held .... i say a misinterpretation from HnF ....

if its a "safe" and not a "Steel box or Steel Cabinet" then 6mm steel thickness is NOT required but it appears that all the inspection people and AOs dont seem to understand the regulation, nor is it on security inspection check-sheet (see below) I think its just more "interpretation"

A gun safe is quite a lot more robust than any 6mm steel gun cabinet ever will be. Gun cabinets are not gun safes.

There are some E cat gun cabinets that have been sold that have been certified by a registered engineer that have had no actual testing done on them. Also they have not been certified by a qualified locksmith.

Obviously, it's in our best interests to have stringent security standards for E, B, and C category firearms. The regulations regarding A category need upgrading IMHO. Firearm theft should be a concern to all of us who love our sport. Lets not give the anti-gun brigade and media more ammo (so to speak) to take pot shots at us.

@P38 I'll try my best, I'll talk to the my shooting buddy that was told all this again tomorrow as well.

Originally Posted by hillclima

I had a discussion the other day when I renewed my FAL, one potential source of the rumour is that the AO was telling me once the Chinese cornered the market in E cat safes, they then dropped the quality, so while the door was 6mm and looked good, the bits you couldn't see were only 4mm, or something along those lines

Of more concern to me was him telling me that you aren't allowed to store your bolts in the same safe as the guns, not even the separate locked cabinet at the top as they could just take the whole safe (even though bolted to the wall and concrete floor). I challenged him on the legal requirements and he relented and said it was what they wanted and a recommendation only, but then there's a box they tick on the renewal form which they tick if you've complied or not......

The other "recommendation" to get the box ticked was that you needed to take the forestocks off your shotguns and store them with the bolts in that other safe spot

I've got nothing against good security and I will take on a few of his recommendation, if I don't use my shotty in the off season it's no hassle to be that much safer. But I think some of it may be starting to get a bit far what is legally required

shit, it sounds like we are going to need multiple safes and dismantle our guns and scatter between safes, no wait the crim could take all the safes!!!

Hamish

the onus should be on people to not steal our guns, not us to have to comply with expensive onerous security requirements that have no evidence of their efficacy

So my buddy ended up ringing our local AO about it, in short some safe manufacturers have been cutting corners, and their Certs say that they "appear" to meet the standard not that they do, he wouldn't say which are fine and which ain't (ridiculous I think). Said they are still processing permits/endorsements but here's the kicker, if you have a safe as your storage they won't sign off on it until they have finished deciding which are going to be reclassified so in effect you won't be able to purchase anything.

Originally Posted by gimp

the onus should be on people to not steal our guns, not us to have to comply with expensive onerous security requirements that have no evidence of their efficacy

Maybe when we live in a fantasy land, morally I agree but know that it would never work.

I can't recall from the top of my head an E-cat safe being accessed up here except one where the dick put the key to it in a weak safe right beside it, which also contained the bolts etc, the safe also happened to contain C-cat assault rifles and pistols Nice guy, but really?!?! However the vast majority I've come across have been taken from unsecured houses or pathetic a-cat security.

Sorry, rant over.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Maybe when we live in a fantasy land, morally I agree but know that it would never work.

I can't recall from the top of my head an E-cat safe being accessed up here except one where the dick put the key to it in a weak safe right beside it, which also contained the bolts etc, the safe also happened to contain C-cat assault rifles and pistols Nice guy, but really?!?! However the vast majority I've come across have been taken from unsecured houses or pathetic a-cat security.

Sorry, rant over.

Can I ask what you class as "pathetic a-cat security"?

Im not having a dig but am genuinely curious. When organising the security of my firearms I took it very serious and would like to think others do too. While i dont have an e-cat safe (cost was prohibitive) I would like to think I have done what I can to avoid being part of the problem.

Originally Posted by stumpy

i had a police check 2 weeks ago , guy looked at the safe , noted its rounded edges (as he stated you cant get sharp edge bends on 6mm or more metal) and was fine for the goodies it held .... i say a misinterpretation from HnF ....

You can't get a sharp bend with a poked press brake either, and yes there are quite a few of them out there....

Originally Posted by gimp

the onus should be on people to not steal our guns, not us to have to comply with expensive onerous security requirements that have no evidence of their efficacy

You've got to be kidding? Dream on. Thieves are exactly what the name implies and we will always have them. Why make it easier for them to steal your firearms. There is plenty of evidence that stringent B, E and C security requirements work at stopping opportunistic thieves from getting access to the firearms within. Professional criminals are a different matter but they're probably not likely to target your place unless you advertise the fact that you own those category firearms.

Originally Posted by Pineapple

Can I ask what you class as

Im not having a dig but am genuinely curious. When organising the security of my firearms I took it very serious and would like to think others do too. While i dont have an e-cat safe (cost was prohibitive) I would like to think I have done what I can to avoid being part of the problem.

While your question is directed at Savage1, I can assure you there are plenty of examples of "pathetic a-cat security" out there. The problem is that the original regulations are out of date regarding A cat security. A gun cabinet made out of thin MDF that can be broken into 30 seconds or a thin walled metal locker that can be jimmied open in the same time with a screwdriver are common examples.

On a daily basis we get people coming in having just done there safety test, asking for a cable and padlock to put around there hot water cistern, as this is what they are told on there course, we do not sell them, we only sell cabinets, customers will spend 000s on guns but object to paying $299 on the cheapest cabinet ? , you will never prevent the people who target guns to steal, but you will stop the opportunist thief

What I think they need to sort out is that the advice I consistent. Dad also just did he renewal yesterday, and he has one of the thin walled metal lockers, with a small safe for bolts. AO said locker was fine and no worries, whereas mine had been saying they weren't.

If they can steal money machines, what hope huh? Better under the bed where you've got a chance of stopping the theft?

Originally Posted by hillclima

What I think they need to sort out is that the advice I consistent. Dad also just did he renewal yesterday, and he has one of the thin walled metal lockers, with a small safe for bolts. AO said locker was fine and no worries, whereas mine had been saying they weren't.

Might be an age thing, I've seen the same here, grandad ok, grandson, no,no. Both with the same security in diff house?