Thread: New gun security laws

Here a family move out 6 weeks after husbands fal is renewed, new owners move in when police get round to following up change of address he is told it wont pass (both are A cat only). Went up the chain and a second vetter passed it.
Seems to be a lack of consistency in applying the rules in a lot of these posts.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Seems to be a lack of consistency in applying the rules in a lot of these posts.

That's going to happen with A cat security because the regulations aren't as specific as they should be. What exactly does "stout construction" mean in absolute terms? It's too loose and open to interpretation and thus we have the variables.

Lax A cat security story's

I used to have a push bike shop, a large one by NZ standards and in a high profile location so we got a lot of people-several every week-coming in asking for bike locks to lock up guns. We even ended up labeling one model as suitable after getting sick of people who didn't ask for advice bringing locks back as the lock heads were to big to fit through actions. It became our biggest selling lock, maybe because bike owners thought that if it was good for guns it must be extra strong-it wasn't as like all cable locks it could be cut through in seconds with good side cutters.

I thought this had gone the way of the dodo over the last few years but only a couple of months I got a bike lock around a pipe ticked off as A cat security at my nominated NZ address. I would not have done this if I thought I would ever have a gun at that house but I was surprised the veter suggested it.

A year ago a young guy I know had his house burgled, he had a couple of cheep guns in a old thin sheet metal clothing locker-the crim just kicked the door to bend it and the peeled the top open enough to lift his guns out.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

Obviously, it's in our best interests to have stringent security standards for E, B, and C category firearms. The regulations regarding A category need upgrading IMHO. Firearm theft should be a concern to all of us who love our sport. Lets not give the anti-gun brigade and media more ammo (so to speak) to take pot shots at us.

Do you really feel an E cat gun is any more deadly than an A cat gun?

I know you mean well, but this is part of the issue, we accept their horrible made up definitions and classes as fact and as if they make sense....

Originally Posted by Jexla

Do you really feel an E cat gun is any more deadly than an A cat gun?

I know you mean well, but this is part of the issue, we accept their horrible made up definitions and classes as fact and as if they make sense....

I know where you're coming from, however it really doesn't matter what I think about the E cat firearm classification. The law makers have decided that MSSA firearms are potentially more lethal and that's it (at least for now).

My main concern is with the poor level of A cat firearm security out there. The licence holder of an A cat is often unaware that their security is inadequate because it was passed as being okay up to ten years ago. Some just don't think they'll ever be robbed and some don't seem to care one way or the other. Some grew up in the era of having the .22 situated behind the washhouse door and haven't got over it.

One thing for sure is that more and more criminals are using firearms. In this age of aggressive drugs what responsible person wants a P fuelled criminal getting there hands on any firearm? Surely common sense should tell us that the tougher the security the harder it is a criminal to steal your firearm and use it in a crime or sell or trade it to an organized crime gang.

Actually , the safe is only a delay device is ONLY works when no one is at home & for a limited time , when people are home then , all the crim does is treaten you or family , and you will open up the safe for the crim , and he has access in side a few secs , that was told to me my a member of the Police .

Yes but as home invasions are actually rare, and most robberys take place in empty homes, then the policeman is giving stupid advice. Yes a safe is only a delaying device, as is the door on your car, but would you be without it.

Originally Posted by Pineapple

Can I ask what you class as "pathetic a-cat security"?

Im not having a dig but am genuinely curious. When organising the security of my firearms I took it very serious and would like to think others do too. While i dont have an e-cat safe (cost was prohibitive) I would like to think I have done what I can to avoid being part of the problem.

Anything that entry can be gained with only basic hand tools in little time. Cables and chains around rafters and cylinders are a joke.

I've seen many pathetic A-cat approved cabinets which I could access in seconds without any tools, just with a few swift kicks.

I'd like to see E-Cat security as a minimum, it's not overly expensive, but I believe the most important requirement with a safe is how they're fixed, bolted on two faces is a must, or at least bolted on the bottom and large bolty screw thingys on the back, I've seen too many safes been ripped from the floor with a crowbar or no tools even. I've even ripped one out myself with a hooligan bar, took less than thirty seconds.

Originally Posted by Jexla

Do you really feel an E cat gun is any more deadly than an A cat gun?

I know you mean well, but this is part of the issue, we accept their horrible made up definitions and classes as fact and as if they make sense....

I do, there's a reason the army uses the Steyr over the Tikka T3.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

One thing for sure is that more and more criminals are using firearms.

Is that really 'for sure' though? Based on what data? Or is it just a throwaway line trotted out by the media (and that goon from the police union) to drum up reactions without any supporting evidence?

@Savage1 " large bolty screw thingys " do i get these at bunnings?

Originally Posted by stumpy

@Savage1 " large bolty screw thingys " do i get these at bunnings?

I would post a picture, but screw you.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Anything that entry can be gained with only basic hand tools in little time. Cables and chains around rafters and cylinders are a joke.

I've seen many pathetic A-cat approved cabinets which I could access in seconds without any tools, just with a few swift kicks.

I'd like to see E-Cat security as a minimum, it's not overly expensive, but I believe the most important requirement with a safe is how they're fixed, bolted on two faces is a must, or at least bolted on the bottom and large bolty screw thingys on the back, I've seen too many safes been ripped from the floor with a crowbar or no tools even. I've even ripped one out myself with a hooligan bar, took less than thirty seconds.

I know where your coming from having had mates and family take the cheapest option that might keep their kids from accessing, but that's all. But where does it end with firearm security when there is little if any deterrent from the courts when the few thieves and unlicensed that are caught ( probably pulled up in the first place for exceeding the speed limit). In smaller communities it doesn't take a genius to know who owns firearms.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Is that really 'for sure' though? Based on what data? Or is it just a throwaway line trotted out by the media (and that goon from the police union) to drum up reactions without any supporting evidence?

Such data is confidential. Nothing to do with the person you're referring to or the bull that the media churns out either. They have their agendas for sure.

Do you really think that firearms related crime has fallen or stayed static in NZ? Might have something to do with methamphetamine, although that's just my opinion.

meth is huge, my ex boss was doing 40k$ a year, when he finally quit he was telling me its lawyers, doctors and even surgeons using the stuff. if the cops can intercept 1/2 a billion bucks worth in one swoop gives you an idea of demand
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