Thread: New gun security laws

Oh well, this should be interesting.

One has to ask, how many of these safes have been burgled and as a result, how many B/C/E category firearms have been stolen and used in the commission of a crime? What is the exact make and model of the safe(s) in question deemed to not be compliant? Where is the evidence to show that these safes are not compliant?

Originally Posted by Ryan

Oh well, this should be interesting.

One has to ask, how many of these safes have been burgled and as a result, how many B/C/E category firearms have been stolen and used in the commission of a crime? What is the exact make and model of the safe(s) in question deemed to not be compliant? Where is the evidence to show that these safes are not compliant?

As i understand it with regards to make and model, none currently meet the police spec, but that'smy understanding not necessarily the truth.

And as I understand it, if effected, you're fucked, unless you take the CGA approach.

Originally Posted by Beavis

Latest info from Firearms Owners United is that there are no approved BCE category safes and that police will have to approve a certain make and model for compliance..

This is something he was told outside of FOUNZ, don't take it as fact. Could be completely untrue.

Unfortunately the police are not very good when it comes to communication and are just saying, yeah nah lots of safes aren't good enough, we won't tell you why.

Originally Posted by Beavis

As i understand it with regards to make and model, none currently meet the police spec, but that'smy understanding not necessarily the truth.

And as I understand it, if effected, you're fucked, unless you take the CGA approach.

Sounds a little bit far-fetched IMHO. I've a certificate from a chartered, ISO 9001 accredited New Zealand engineering company declaring that my safe is compliant in terms of Arms Act 1983 Regulation 28(1)(c). The safe is secured in the prescribed manner as approved by AO.

Short of an equally accredited engineer coming to my house and proving otherwise, I'd say they can tell their story walking.

one safe i saw had a hollow door full of ball bearings, if you tried to cut into it the bearings would roll and make it damn hard to cut. i did make the comment that it would be even more of a deterrent if it was filled with ball bearings and gunpowder.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Sounds a little bit far-fetched IMHO. I've a certificate from a chartered, ISO 9001 accredited New Zealand engineering company declaring that my safe is compliant in terms of Arms Act 1983 Regulation 28(1)(c). The safe is secured in the prescribed manner as approved by AO.

Short of an equally accredited engineer coming to my house and proving otherwise, I'd say they can tell their story walking.

I can only relay what I've read from other sources. But the police have a history of doing what they want and requiring court action to put them right.

I wonder if class action litigation is an available option in the New Zealand legal system?

Class action going on now, appealing the non-punishment of directors of Pike River Mine, over the 29 deaths of Pike River employees.
Action is being taken through the Companies Act, Work Safe Act and OSH regulations.
Duty of Care being the grounds for the action.
So I'd think that a class action over this commentary, by police, is a possibility.
Stop the importation and sale of non-compliant B/C/E safes.
Maybe the industry needs an AS/NZS standard for manufacture of same.
Which should also include 'approved fixing methods' to a structure.
Takes that decision out of police hands all together.
The Arms Act safe specification is too loose in this regard.
If the AO makes an on the spot decision, then the FAL license applicant could be up for a lot of extra, unanticipated costs.
A properly constructed Standard, means then the safe (all categories), is either compliant/non-compliant.
If it meets the standard, then it is certified as such.
Same as fixing the safe to a structure.

There already is a New Zealand standard for safes, AS/NZS 3809:1998 Safes and Strong rooms.

You don't want that standard for gun safes in NZ.


Funnily enough in "gun control heaven " Australia, gun safes don't have to comply with the standard either.

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Government should focus on gun control only to an extent where it doesn't hinder with carrying the gun for the self defense. These days gun control is only to irritate gun owners. They have to take care a lot of things to keep their license safe.

It makes no sense that we as licensed firearm owners, who have our characters more thoroughly scrutinised than any member of civil society, are demonised so much by the media and the police.

I read an old NZ Herald article from 2006 which stated that firearm related crime accounts for less than 1.3% of crimes committed annually. For a country that has such a low rate of firearm crime, one can only surmise that there are ulterior motives for the NZP's latest incentive.

It's all about control, maintaining it and expanding it where possible.

Originally Posted by gunnerjacky

Government should focus on gun control only to an extent where it doesn't hinder with carrying the gun for the self defense.

Say what ?

The fact that there is two simultaneous pushes to arm front line police and restrict private gun ownership indicates that Ryan is right. This isn't a tinfoil hat conspiricy theory it's the logical conclusion given the facts.

On a similar note there is a worldwide push headed by the USA to restrict the ability of private individuals to share\copy information or media that they own (anti piracy, IP laws, Sky copyrighting the Olympic news) at the same time state governments are affirming their rights to read all of your web traffic and private e-mails whenever they want.

Why is it ok for the NSA\GCSB to read my e-mails the contents of which are private and something I care about personally but I can't download a movie off megaupload.com which only has a very small monitary value and no privacy implication? Why does a Hollywood movie studio have more rights than I do?

The only bright spot in all this is that anything is hackable so the Panama papers got released and Hillary Clinton's emails got hacked and released. Eventually they will intimidate the hackers into stopping though...

Originally Posted by MassiveAttack

Sky copyrighting the Olympic news

Going to pick one thing in your post (because it's the easiest). Sky has paid a lot of $$ for Olympic broadcast rights. News media in NZ have always worked with restrictions for access and video if they are not the rights holder - same for any big event like RWC, Commonwealth Games, America's Cup, etc.

Fairfax aka Stuff and NZME aka NZ Herald have said they want to use Sky video as much as they like, on their websites. Not in newspapers which is their origin, but web sites. And Sky have said no, unless you agree to limiting the duration of the video. TVNZ and TV3 have always been in the same boat and have always agreed to the restrictions.

Both Stuff and NZHerald and said no, they don't want to follow those rules, despite they're using the video just like TVNZ and TV3. Which is why Sky took Fairfax to court for breach of copyright - it's business.

There's no grand world wide conspiracy.

It's simply Stuff and NZHerald acting like dicks and getting their hand smacked and complaining.

The IP discussion for individuals is more complex, so a glib one liner won't be good enough.

I'm glad some of you can see it how it is really is and are not afraid to call a spade a spade. The rest of you are happy to watch your rights wither into nothing then pretend you don't know how it happened.