Thread: NEW MSSA law ..?.......

Black is soooo 90's

Everyone knows that pink is the new black.
With new and improved dangerosity

What people either don't see or prefer to ignore is that it was in the submission that may to future proof the bill. Already the NSA is coming up with stupid ideas such as the last bullet not being automatically loaded to circumvent the interpretation of "semi-automatic" in the bill. It mean't that they could have covered future issues such as caseless ammo.

People jump up and down saying they're targeting bolt guns etc with no evidence. They were doing the smart thing trying to plug future holes in the bill and avoid numerous court cases over interpretation in wording. This is how the lawyers are going to make their money while tying up police and court time.

The power for the GG to make changes to the definitions have always been there in the original Arms Act, just the wording wasn't so specific, so nothing has really changed in that aspect.

Hanse, your original post showed some serious flaws in it, which was why I suggested that you read the actual legislation, it's not that long and is better than getting a heavily biased opinion of it.

Originally Posted by Savage1

What people either don't see or prefer to ignore is that it was in the submission that may to future proof the bill. Already the NSA is coming up with stupid ideas such as the last bullet not being automatically loaded to circumvent the interpretation of "semi-automatic" in the bill. It mean't that they could have covered future issues such as caseless ammo.



People jump up and down saying they're targeting bolt guns etc with no evidence. They were doing the smart thing trying to plug future holes in the bill and avoid numerous court cases over interpretation in wording. This is how the lawyers are going to make their money while tying up police and court time.

The power for the GG to make changes to the definitions have always been there in the original Arms Act, just the wording wasn't so specific, so nothing has really changed in that aspect.

Hanse, your original post showed some serious flaws in it, which was why I suggested that you read the actual legislation, it's not that long and is better than getting a heavily biased opinion of it.

I think most of this post is bollocks, it barely makes sense. Caseless ammo is hardly a serious, near future issue in NZ, or even the world bro, more an ideal solution to soldiers carrying too much useless case. Try gangs or separatist groups with illegal guns or unlicensed weirdos getting kit with big mags or belt feed, if you are looking for issues.

As for people trying to get around the law, a few common sense judges with a pair of nuts each will easily get around that by making good common sense rulings and setting a precedent. Worrying about people changing a semi to get around the law is bullshit, everyone knows what a semi is.

My first post was flawed in that I didn't say that the bill only affected semi's. I knew this but had failed to state it so addressed it in my very next post. I also read the legislation this morning before work. It doesn't change my first post. The ammendment is pretty much exactly as Nicholas Taylor summarised it in NZG&H, funny that with him being paid to do that sort of thing.

The statement I made about bolt guns being next on the list, NEXT on the list, had nil to do with the said legislation, more of a warning for what future laws or amendments may bring.

Thanks for pointing out the errors in my post, posts sometimes don't come out how they are meant.

Agreed, now we have the term "semi-automatic", but that term is not explicitly defined. They tried in version 1, but that got shot down pretty quick.

And this is where it gets stupid, because you will get someone arguing what a semi is and is not...

Plus you get deliberately provocative statements such as "Our expert firearms engineers are currently working on adaptations for AK / AR variant firearms. These modifications will prevent the last round loaded from chambering and discharging. Firearms modified in this way will no longer legally qualify as semi-automatic under the amended Arms Act. "

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

Originally Posted by ebf

Agreed, now we have the term "semi-automatic", but that term is not explicitly defined. They tried in version 1, but that got shot down pretty quick.

And this is where it gets stupid, because you will get someone arguing what a semi is and is not...

Dude. WTF are you talking about?

Semi-auto is explicitly defined in the new provisions. Anyone with a basic understanding of what they're talking about can see that by reading the Act.

One thing that is obvious from this and other legal threads is that pretty much no-one understands the first thing about how legislation works or how to interpret it.

Some might whinge about how it is defined, but it most definitely defined.

As for other comments in this thread about people testing what the law means. Welcome to the real world. This is why you don't legislate just for the lulz. Every law change creates unintended consequences, new provisions get tested through the courts, particularly where you're messing with people who have the collective resources to take the government to court. The courts don't always side with the agency that came up with the original provisions.

Originally Posted by scaggly

Dude. WTF are you talking about?

Semi-auto is explicitly defined in the new provisions. Anyone with a basic understanding of what they're talking about can see that by reading the Act.

One thing that is obvious from this and other legal threads is that pretty much no-one understands the first thing about how legislation works or how to interpret it.

Some might whinge about how it is defined, but it most definitely defined.

As for other comments in this thread about people testing what the law means. Welcome to the real world. This is why you don't legislate just for the lulz. Every law change creates unintended consequences, new provisions get tested through the courts, particularly where you're messing with people who have the collective resources to take the government to court. The courts don't always side with the agency that came up with the original provisions.

Well said. At the end of the day, the courts will decide what exactly "semi auto" means as defined in the act.

Originally Posted by scaggly

Semi-auto is explicitly defined in the new provisions.

Scagly, my mistake, your are correct sir

I guess if the Police had not started this all off with the illegal "butts" fiasco then we would all be abiding by their illegal pre "Butts" interpretation and they and us would all be happy and none the wiser. The Police have gone on record stating they wish to now return to the pre "Butts" interpretation. So we will have to wait and see if they are stating the truth.
If this statement is correct and they do infact wish to return to pre "butts" then the past 2 yrs has been a total and utter waste of time and money and someone in PHQ needs a rocket up there jacksee, as all this ammendment has done is to alleinate a high number of law abiding shooters and cause distrust towards the NZ Police in the eyes of alot of shooters.

Sensible laws would be meet by sensible responses. Aboslute nonsense laws well-they deserve the response they get.

Whoops, missed the 'or less'. Thats what I get for trying to be a smartass.

Yip - gonna be a a few .17HMR owners out there unwittingly in possession of MSSA's. Great law I'm glad they put so much thought into it.

Originally Posted by Beavis

Yip - gonna be a a few .17HMR owners out there unwittingly in possession of MSSA's. Great law I'm glad they put so much thought into it.

I don't actually know of any 22WMRs or HMRs with bigger mags from factory off the top of my head, usually they're 5 or 7. Who makes semi-auto HMRs anyway? Can't be many around. Bolt actions can still have mags as big as you like if I'm reading it right.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

I don't actually know of any 22WMRs or HMRs with bigger mags from factory off the top of my head, usually they're 5 or 7. Who makes semi-auto HMRs anyway? Can't be many around. Bolt actions can still have mags as big as you like if I'm reading it right.

Magnum Research, Excel Arms, Ruger, Marlin. Not all that common but they are out there. It is still a stupid omission.

It was also great to see they took on the advise of experienced shooters, our MP's expertise in all things firearms was duly noted during the second and third readings. Was great to see they knew what they were talking about.

I have a nosey at the 3rd reading, almost fell asleep wish I had the audio version, I can see some MP gunning for increased amendments mind the pun, and then you read MP Prosser, and say yeah, don't punish the legit users because of idiots out there.

Guess we will have to see what happens later this year, I will sit on ye picket fence with my Marlin 917VR pondering the future.