Thread: New week, new 'Ultra Vires' Police Action

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

So they are just going ahead and doing it law change or not.

The law was changed about three or four years ago. I'm suprised it's taken them this long to start using it.

Originally Posted by systolic

The law was changed about three or four years ago. I'm suprised it's taken them this long to start using it.

They haven't used it though. No order in council has passed regarding this. They are just making it up themselves, business as usual.

Went looking for definition of 'ultra vires', as I wasn't sure what koshogi and others meant.
Found this link which would be helpful to others who are unsure of the term.

http://www.open.edu/openlearn/societ...section-3.12.1

I'd like to say that I'm no 'stupid', but 'less well informed' than I should be, regarding the Latin used by other posters.
Found this link quite useful in understanding what ultra vires really means, and the outrageous statements and requirements being foisted on LAFAO's.
Seems to me that the PNHQ are trying to get all firearms banned - by whatever means possible - so that their inefficiencies and shortcomings won't be exposed.

Originally Posted by Beavis

They haven't used it though. No order in council has passed regarding this. They are just making it up themselves, business as usual.

Apart from a Facebook post, what is to say they are doing it?

Originally Posted by systolic

Apart from a Facebook post, what is to say they are doing it?

Absolutely nothing - other than the word of the affected dealer. They tend to shy away from putting these policies in writing.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Source: https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz/

Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's.

Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's. This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.

Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's. We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council. Paula Bennett once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.

Stuart Nash MP you have talked to FOUNZ about removing police's ability to make law at will with an Order in Council. We suggest they may not be far off, again attempting to subvert the parliamentary law making process. It might be time for opposition parties to stand up to the police state we are descending into.

Ron Mark - NZ First MP, Richard Prosser MP - New Zealand First List MP, as per your policy, we need to remove police from administering the Arms Act. They are incompetent. They are now a law unto themselves.

Letter to the MPs

Hello Paula Bennett

Once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.

I have been made aware of a policy change by the New Zealand Police Head Quarters (as detailed in the link below) defining ALL AR type rifles as E cat when importing. Even if they are Not MSSA (E cat) they are being defined as such. I cannot find anywhere in the arms act, any mention of Police being able to reclassify an A cat firearm as E cat when it does not have ANY E cat features. This means the Police are acting outside their mandate of upholding the law and are attempting to write it. (again!!!) They want the respect of the public yet time and time again, they step forward and march us towards a state where the Police write the law.

https://m.facebook.com/firearmowners...id=18&__tn__=C

Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's
Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's.
This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.
Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's.
We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council.

With regards to this policy change I have a simple question:

It appears that those in charge of initiating these policies have so little respect for the law they are charged to uphold, that they are prepared to write and enforce their own versions of the law beyond what is legally allowed. If they no longer have respect for the law, does this also mean they are no longer fit for the position they are employed in as they no longer law abiding people? If so I would ask that you seek their resignation if they continue to try enforce laws that have not been passed into legislation?

With an election fast approaching, it seems the Police are doing everything they can to undermine our government.

Thank you for your time
Me (Name changed)

Originally Posted by hamsav

At what point do the police consider themselves not fit and proper people to handle fire arms.

I think like the Defense force they are "specifically exempt" from the Arms act during the "course of their duties". I would have thought however in order the become a member of the police you would be held to a higher standard than us "commoners".

I have lived in a Police State (Turkmenistan) in the 90's and we are fast heading in that direction I fear. People there were openly fearful of the criminals and the Police and the Secret Police..

Originally Posted by systolic

Apart from a Facebook post, what is to say they are doing it?

I understand your skepticism, and I am often much the same when it comes to this sort of situation. You have no idea how much I've begged people to get this stuff in writing, but it's just not possible.

The AO gets left to pass on the message to the applicants from PNHQ, thing is the AO knows they can't implicate themselves in writing to have PNHQ deny ever requesting it like they have now done in this case (much like the arms code scenario)

It's a tricky situation for us, I can confirm we've had other dealers contact us with the exact same issue dating back to July. They however fear that coming out about the issue publicly will negatively affect their business because of how the police will treat them in the future, which is why they have contacted us and COLFO privately.

@Jexla, when you say "us", who is that?

Originally Posted by Beaker

@Jexla, when you say "us", who is that?

"us" in the first instance meant LAFAO.

After that I am referring to FOUNZ.

Originally Posted by Jexla

FOUNZ

Thanks for that.

Originally Posted by Jexla

"us" in the first instance meant LAFAO.

After that I am referring to FOUNZ.

OK, what are they?

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

OK, what are they?

Law abiding firearm owners and FIREARM OWNERS UNITED NZ – Uniting Firearm Owners Of New Zealand / https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz

Thanks.

Needs an email follow thing. Some of us don't bookface.