Thread: NZ Police has chilling problem: they're Killing, More and More

Originally Posted by Maca49

I was with you until you mentioned Carhill!

Chris SCAHILL is a Superintendant with the NZ Police, not CAHILL who is the NZP Association president.

The article is biased and emotive, their "experts" aren't really experts at all in the area which shows with their responses and some clearly have an axe to grind.

I wasn't going to write a response to that article as I didn't really want to dignify it with a response.

Originally Posted by Savage1

The article is biased and emotive, their "experts" aren't really experts at all in the area which shows with their responses and some clearly have an axe to grind.

I wasn't going to write a response to that article as I didn't really want to dignify it with a response.

the media are experts only in talking total BS. hell 1/2 the time they use spelling and grammar thats primary school level too

Yeah mate it is,I was merely being facetious about the issue......but you are correct I believe

Originally Posted by stug

Pretty sure the reasons cops carry at the airport is because of an international security requirement rather than NZ Police policy.

General drift of the discussion so far is most cops are by and large not gung ho, but what they come up against has been changing - "suicide-by-cop" one.

Chief problem NZ vs the UK is methamphetamine. In the UK Meth seems a major problem only on the affluent London gay scene. Main reason seems to be the UK market being 'well served' and cornered by cocaine, heroin, etc. In NZ druggies tend more towards the cheap and dangerous stuff. Due to our isolation, paradoxically!

Other difference from the UK, since that is the comparison made by the article, is NZ tangata whenua. They are over-represented in the article's list of police killshot victims, but again, tangata whenua are also over-represented in infanticide and child abuse cases. This is much tied in with drug and alcohol issues. This is a sensitive, painful issue and we should not make hasty, insensitive comments. As it is, this thread is about NZ Police's record, and in that context the takeaway message is not to lay excess blame on Police. NZ Police does not work in a vacuum.

the (cheap) price of drugs in the UK shows what a bunch of druggies they are, 50 pence for mdma (ecstasy) is actually making pubs close up as its cheaper to get stoned. scotland is the heroin capital of europe and most drugs are sold openly and no one seems to care

Originally Posted by Savage1

The article is biased and emotive, their "experts" aren't really experts at all in the area which shows with their responses and some clearly have an axe to grind.

I wasn't going to write a response to that article as I didn't really want to dignify it with a response.

...it's not like they use "experts" for the other side of the argument - Alpers, Gillespie....Cahill & his anecdotal tripe....not like they have an axe to grind either.
The media are looking to create click-bait, and have done so with this sort of article.

Originally Posted by gonetropo

the (cheap) price of drugs in the UK shows what a bunch of druggies they are, 50 pence for mdma (ecstasy) is actually making pubs close up as its cheaper to get stoned. scotland is the heroin capital of europe and most drugs are sold openly and no one seems to care

@gonetropo

I really regret having to say so, but it is a much lesser evil that UK has a 'good' supply of drug alternatives to meth. (This world is sooo screwed up...)

my ex boss completely screwed himself on meth. its a horrid drug and it bring out the worst in the user. in the end it gave him throat cancer and it spread . he was a nice guy before he was a user but on meth he was just plain bloody scary

@gonetropo

Scary is the word, for good reason. When dealers have firearms, "not for the police but to defend against their competition", but are also on meth, that dubious distinction will likely fly out the window when PC Plod turns up. The law needs to have stiff mandatory sentences for illegal firearms possession to just make it a no-go, though some may of course suggest that does not work. Arms are just too sexy for that stupid gangsta look and feel...

Clamping down heavily in the courts on meths manufacturers and suppliers (AND less heavily on offenses relating to non-meth drugs) may however get closer to the core of the issue. It's not about condoning the latter drugs, but about recognising the unique dangers of meth. Anyone listening here???

Originally Posted by Savage1

Sorry but your uncle is out of touch, I'm guessing he isn't ever out on the frontline or assessing recent cases by speaking to the people involved in the incident. I can tell you through my experience that NZ cops pulling guns on offenders is actually quite rare.

In my experience and knowledge, NZ Police are exceptionally good at using less than lethal options whenever appropriate and deescalating situations, like Scahill said, on average Police get shot at by offenders twice as often as Police shoot at offenders. You'd be surprised at just how rarely TASERs and Batons get used.

Your idea of the deployment and use of the STG is way off the mark. They are governed by the same laws as every other Police Officer so their rules of engagement are exactly the same.

You are probably correct. It's a long time since he's been a cop. I still stand by what I said as he is a trustworthy bloke.

Cordite.. u make a very valid point... ie when dealers have Guns for the competition!!!!not the police
My boy was a paramedic here in Oregon for 6 years before coming a fireman/paramedic.... he’s says 40% of his calls were for meth addicts... and most were packing,the cops never took any chances.

He was recently selected to work with the local swat team as the paramedic on the team,but his training is unbelievable,he showed me the curriculum that they go through.... bloody intense... a drift I know

Drugs and guns anymore ,go hand in hand

I would suggest that the number of jobs where Police are responding armed each year across NZ would be in the 1000's (I mean carrying into a scene)...pulling the trigger is not very common at all so I think that the assumption of poorly trained, trigger happy Police is well off the mark.

I look at it another way, while we could always spend more time putting lead in the air, the important part is the thought and decision making process prior to deciding on what action is to be taken at the time.
This decision making process occurs everyday, every shift for every officer.

As has been previously stated, hindsight is 20/20..a basic glimpse..you get dispatched to job, basic job details, often inaccurate and nothing can be assumed or taken for granted..do I have to respond to it? what's the threat? whos in danger? (this include my partner and I, neighbors, children etc..) arrive at scene, re visit threat and need for response but add in the scene details you find - how does this affect my response? then the actual response...over and over constantly evaluating information on the go until the job is effectively managed and resulted.

Think about this, every kitchen in a home has large knives etc...a taser is no match for a knife. Everytime Police enter a home they are putting themselves at risk.

The most effective tactical option Kiwi cops use everyday is communication, and they do it well.

There would not be a shift rotation (working week) that I do not respond to a situation that I see taking a firearm into necessary largely for offenders with weapons. It is that common . That in itself when you think how many frontline Police we have and then look at the number of shootings proves that our decision making training is good.

My 2 c

Originally Posted by Savage1

The article is biased and emotive, their "experts" aren't really experts at all in the area which shows with their responses and some clearly have an axe to grind.

I wasn't going to write a response to that article as I didn't really want to dignify it with a response.

Have to agree with you here, we should take it with a pinch of cyanide. Just like so many other articles we debate.

Originally Posted by Maca49

Your becoming a PC soft cock!!

Whats that?