Thread: OH FFS

That air rifle is actually classified as a firearm and requires a class A FAL.That was a pre-charged Pneumatic (PCP) semi automatic air rifle with 12 shot mag called an FX-Monsoon. These pcp arent even able to be sold on trademe in the air rifle section

"A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage." - Oxford dictionary.

The word "Weapon" is simply not an accurate description of a sub 12 ftlbs powered break barrel slug gun. Not anymore than a motor vehicle, screwdriver, golf club or marshmellow is.
There's a subtle difference i'm trying to point out that not all guns were designed for this purpose. Like olympic air pistols for example.

Anything on this green earth can be used as a weapon but they cant be called that if they weren't designed for that purpose.

Originally Posted by Dead is better

That air rifle is actually classified as a firearm and requires a class A FAL.That was a pre-charged Pneumatic (PCP) semi automatic air rifle with 12 shot mag called an FX-Monsoon. These pcp arent even able to be sold on trademe in the air rifle section

"A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage." - Oxford dictionary.

The word "Weapon" is simply not an accurate description of a sub 12 ftlbs powered break barrel slug gun. Not anymore than a motor vehicle, screwdriver, golf club or marshmellow is.
There's a subtle difference i'm trying to point out that not all guns were designed for this purpose. Like olympic air pistols for example.

Anything on this green earth can be used as a weapon but they cant be called that if they weren't designed for that purpose.

The case @systolic refers to is the reason for the change in the law to recognise PCP's as A-cat - not to take anything away from your argument.

Its just an object until somebody actually uses it to inflict injury or harm. You cant just define weapon as : "Anything within arms reach".

The word implies that it more than likely WILL be used in defense or attack.

They aren't weapons. "Stuff" was wrong to imply little kids slug guns are all going to be used to cause harm.

Originally Posted by Dead is better

Its just an object until somebody actually uses it to inflict injury or harm. You cant just define weapon as : "Anything within arms reach".

The word implies that it more than likely WILL be used in defense or attack.

They aren't weapons. "Stuff" was wrong to imply little kids slug guns are all going to be used to cause harm.

"Stuff was wrong" says it all really. Stuff was wrong. Were you really expecting them to try get something right? It should be called Stuff'd. Stuff could not manage to get anything correct if you gave them the correct answer in advance.

Originally Posted by Dead is better

That air rifle is actually classified as a firearm and requires a class A FAL.That was a pre-charged Pneumatic (PCP) semi automatic air rifle with 12 shot mag called an FX-Monsoon. These pcp arent even able to be sold on trademe in the air rifle section

"A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage." - Oxford dictionary.

The word "Weapon" is simply not an accurate description of a sub 12 ftlbs powered break barrel slug gun. Not anymore than a motor vehicle, screwdriver, golf club or marshmellow is.
There's a subtle difference i'm trying to point out that not all guns were designed for this purpose. Like olympic air pistols for example.

Anything on this green earth can be used as a weapon but they cant be called that if they weren't designed for that purpose.

Was it classified as a firearm at the time the cop was killed? Or was it still just an airgun that anyone over 18 could buy?

It was re-classified after the officer was shot, a muzzel energy requirement has been added to the act.

From experience, NZ will never have the gun problems the US has ( because that's what we're talking about here, the US' gun problems, not the culture), because NZ has basic social services, a high standard of living and social standards. The average level of education and world awareness is atrocious, poverty is rampant through all parts of the country, and there are just plain too many people. I'm really not at all joking or exaggerating. The current level of polarization there (IE ban everything vs from my cold dead hands) comes from their politics that makes everything a battle of extremes where surrender, loss, or giving ground is impossible as the other side will push their agenda to the limit the minute they get the chance. It seems there's still something of a community feeling in NZ that puts the brakes on that.

Nothing wrong with the ad - I'm sure it'll ruffle some snowflakes' feathers, but if that's the worst thing they experience in their day to day life then things are pretty good on the whole.

Originally Posted by canross

From experience, NZ will never have the gun problems the US has ( because that's what we're talking about here, the US' gun problems, not the culture), because NZ has basic social services, a high standard of living and social standards. The average level of education and world awareness is atrocious, poverty is rampant through all parts of the country, and there are just plain too many people. I'm really not at all joking or exaggerating. The current level of polarization there (IE ban everything vs from my cold dead hands) comes from their politics that makes everything a battle of extremes where surrender, loss, or giving ground is impossible as the other side will push their agenda to the limit the minute they get the chance. It seems there's still something of a community feeling in NZ that puts the brakes on that.

Nothing wrong with the ad - I'm sure it'll ruffle some snowflakes' feathers, but if that's the worst thing they experience in their day to day life then things are pretty good on the whole.

Agreed on both points. I would add that what it will take to fix the US problems will be an attitude shift not a political one. I will use drink driving here in NZ as an example. Driving drunk was illegal in the 70s and is illegal now. But the attitude (social context) has changed significantly. In the 70s if you got caught DUI then you were considered unlucky. The cop was out to get you and the only person at risk was the person driving drunk. Now the attitude is one of WTF were you thinking? You absolute idiot? Thank god they got you off the road before you killed someone. Until the attitude towards firearms changes there at a social level, nothing will happen. Social changes will force commercial changes without the law being involved. Shops will simply stop selling what people will not buy. If people decide to not go in to a shop because it sells a particular item, then that shop has to decide if stocking that item is worth losing these customers. One or two people making this decision will not effect a change, but a much larger percentage of lost customers will.

Quote..”I would add that what it will take to fix the US problems will be an attitude shift not a political one.”

Mate,great point but it will never happen....never say never,yeah right..........I have travelled every state in the contiguous 48,Alaska and it# tributaries.........the difference between what we in Kiwi see as a “privilege”,is what they call a “right”........those concepts are at extreme ends.....

Originally Posted by canross

The current level of polarization there (IE ban everything vs from my cold dead hands) comes from their politics that makes everything a battle of extremes where surrender, loss, or giving ground is impossible as the other side will push their agenda to the limit the minute they get the chance.

This reminds me of the old adage,
"The opposite of one bad idea, is usually the opposite bad idea."

Originally Posted by A330driver

Quote..”I would add that what it will take to fix the US problems will be an attitude shift not a political one.”

Mate,great point but it will never happen....never say never,yeah right..........I have travelled every state in the contiguous 48,Alaska and it# tributaries.........the difference between what we in Kiwi see as a “privilege”,is what they call a “right”........those concepts are at extreme ends.....

I was thinking the same. But I see now a few shops have listened to customers and made the decision to not sell some items like AR15s. Whether others follow or whether they revert remains to be seen. At the end of the day I doubt that law changes (or not) will make little difference. Sales talk. If they lose sales because customers stop buying from them due to their stock, they will likely stock what the customers want to buy.

On a different note, I think I surprised one of my staff today. She asked why does anyone need so many guns? I asked how many are we talking? she replied about ALL the guns that fellow in vegas had. My reply was it was not about how many. That gent should NOT have been allowed ONE. It has nothing to do with the number of guns and everything to do with whether the person should be allowed access to ANY firearms or not. . The look on her face was disbelief that I would support a ban. I told her I dont support a ban. I support the idea that those people who are not coping with life need help, not firearms.

Originally Posted by timattalon

Agreed on both points. I would add that what it will take to fix the US problems will be an attitude shift not a political one. I will use drink driving here in NZ as an example. Driving drunk was illegal in the 70s and is illegal now. But the attitude (social context) has changed significantly. In the 70s if you got caught DUI then you were considered unlucky. The cop was out to get you and the only person at risk was the person driving drunk. Now the attitude is one of WTF were you thinking? You absolute idiot? Thank god they got you off the road before you killed someone. Until the attitude towards firearms changes there at a social level, nothing will happen. Social changes will force commercial changes without the law being involved. Shops will simply stop selling what people will not buy. If people decide to not go in to a shop because it sells a particular item, then that shop has to decide if stocking that item is worth losing these customers. One or two people making this decision will not effect a change, but a much larger percentage of lost customers will.

Social attitudes can change things , for sure, but the bottle shops and bars still make a good living in spit of

Yeah mate....the social and political bandwagon,a great thing for the moment.....the other issues you may get change,....guns in the USA,not so much.....I have lived,worked,played with enough yanks to know their thoughts and feelings on gun issues,.....even the most conservative ones,.......if anything the “millennial”crowd will have their chance to change gun laws,but not in my or your time.

The sales pitch....smoke and mirrors to make themselves or others feel good.Nobody questions these massacres are dispicable,the yanks are at least debating,seriously,and back to your point....WHO THE FUCK SHOUKD BE ALLOWED A GUN,.....There own system is at fault,their checks and balances system is at fault,if you look at most of these situations,the information was there,BUT,it was never used,shared or acted upon

I have many mates who have FFL licenses (private citizens allowed to purchase weapons from makers/dealers and sell them to you and I)most will tell you,sales are going through the roof,....there are no background checks,no medical reports,no accountability when they sell......the system,I think,is fucked!!!!......until they make,devise,plan a system whereby everybody is on the same page,when it comes to someone owning,obtaining,selling,buying a gun,.....then it is a lost cause,because there are so many cracks to slip through,and any/every fuckwit who shouldn’t be allowed a gun...................can get one....WTF!!!!

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

What a stupid tart, people like that have no idea. Clearly brain-washed by daytime tv.

shes entitled to her view on firearms and her kids being around them ,that doesnt make her a stupid tart but driving on bald tyres makes her a fuckwit stupid tart.