Thread: Police association reaction to submissions

Other Govt departments need to increase reimbursements if we are expected to pay inflation adjusted rates. ACC reimburse travel at 23c a K.

Originally Posted by gundoc

A Police document released just before the close-off date for submissions put the charge-out rate at $143.00 per hour!

Sounds like they are making shit up again.

Originally Posted by GDMP

6000 submissions it says there....seems once again most shooters were simply too apathetic to even bother making one.

Whats the point, sub missions will be ignored anyway like they have every other time.

The only submission that'll count is the one on the 14th of October.
Even the unless Nicole gets a decent say in things after that shooter in NZ are screwed.

The Police have clearly had an agenda since 2019 and are going to run it full course if allowed to do so, the opinion of gun owners was never considered by the Police.

If we pay, can we now demand service?

Originally Posted by OGM

I could have sworn its a religion after spending some time around here.

Not a religion, just a sport, a hobby, a passion.
Just like everything else in life be it; rugby, cars, cooking, etc, some people just dabble in it a few times a year and others live a breathe it everyday.

There are many people who have dedicated their entrie lives to shooting sports, I know people who spent decades doing service rifle shooting in NZ and abroad.
One guy in particular lived and breathed all shooting sports, he was part of the mountain safety council, was heavily involved with the Police and even was the guy who ran the FAL exams in my area for many years. Well after March 2019 his lifes contribution didn't mean anything and went from being a good guy to the community to "one of those gun nuts" overnight.

If you only joined in 2022 you didn't see the way things played out in the 12 months post 2019.
It was heart breaking to see clubs that had been "friends" on the Police for years groveling to try keep their sports alive, only to meet with contempt at every step.
This forum has moved on a lot since then and seems like most people have forgotten how things played out, the remaining "religious zealots" are just the ones who were effected the most, with the odd nutter thrown in for good measure.

Originally Posted by OGM

Seems a bunch of folks (including some here) have been blaming the Police for giving the terrorist a license. As usual the government always has an answer and that's more bureaucracy and associated costs.

In any case no way does $126.50 cover costs.

My general sense is it will go to somewhere between $400-700. They are obviously considering a time payment option and I think this would be a good idea.



If its a quote in the media I suggest to disregard it. I trust the media less then used car sales and real estate agents.

I did the numbers, the cost of licenses plus revenue from GST on firearms, accessories, and ammunition more than covers it.

Originally Posted by OGM

Far bigger chance of a baby bonus. The government needs more tax payers.

You are assuming their progeny will work and pay tax?

Seriously how long have you lived in New Zealand?

One point is while most of us here are keen shooters or hunters or both, in my experience there are a great deal of rural LFO's who mostly kill pests such as rabbits, possums, goats etc as part of work or because they need to on their property. These people aren't hobbyists or necessarily keen fire arm users. This will cause many to quit (if they can) or possibly some will go outside the law. I would say without a doubt pest control will suffer. I suspect duck shooting is going to take a big hit also.

also the way to get more people being safer with firearms is to have more people comply with the law - duh

Pricing people out of complying will increase non-compliance and hence more people will be on the wrong side of the law

The Police approach to FAL admin is starting from the wrong premise and going in the wrong direction

It was a recommendation of the report that NZP be relieved of administering the act and I would like to see this recommendation carried out


Yes FAL license fees are very cheap and have been for a long time but ratcheting them up slowly is better than a 400% increase

Originally Posted by muzza

Mr OGM - I spent nearly 27 years as a volunteer Mountain Safety Council Firearms Instructor so firearms and firearms safety is pretty close to my heart. I have no idea how many folk I have assisted through the then MSC Licensing test system. Lots and lots , so I think I have a reasonable grasp on whats been taken away from us without any concern for US.

I dont know you from a bar of soap , but I seriously dont like the angle you are promoting over this process. Convince me that you are more right than the rest of us....

And I'll second that . comparative youngster in terms of your tenancy on here but already youre strident statements and ???pro police POV is starting to irritate those of longstanding .
my genteel advice tone it down a bit and maybe take time to consider other ,more senior members POVs before bounding in with your own.
tis an old dog who walks the footpath,the pups run on the street. good day to you.

Originally Posted by timattalon

I pointed out in mine that the costs of a passport are not the full costs, neither is the costs for a Drivers license. In fact many of these are not fully charged. The full costs of criminal action are not passed on to the criminals (prosecution costs, processing costs, remand costs) so why should a firearms license be any different? If they started fully recovering costs for these then fine, I would accept a lift in fees- but if that is the case, then taxes would not need to be so high as they are recovering costs from users.

You're partially wrong there. Passports has run a memorandum account for years. Adults pay over the actual cost because people think a child's passport should be cheaper, so adults subsidise children.
Occasionally politicians interfere with the cost of passports because people get emotional about them, but in the long run average passports are fully cost recovered.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

Originally Posted by Eat Meater

You're partially wrong there. Passports has run a memorandum account for years. Adults pay over the actual cost because people think a child's passport should be cheaper, so adults subsidise children.
Occasionally politicians interfere with the cost of passports because people get emotional about them, but in the long run average passports are fully cost recovered.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

Actually, come to think of it, that may be what Police want to do. Then they could build the cost of building the register into the fees, just like the cost if the laser passport printers was built into passport prices.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

When the boffins in police openly state the the proposed increase in price will likely cause many to not get a FAL we have plenty to bitch about.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by OGM

And who is this "rest of us"? I'm thinking that is considerably overstated.



Do feel free to point out where this is a requirement as per the T&C's.



If you disagree with something I have posted feel free to post something different. But there is no forum clique called "longstanding" who magically have any sort of veto on what is permissible insofar as it does not breach the rules posted above or normal standards of decency.

Argumentum ad populum
In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people")[1] is a fallacious argument which is based on claiming a truth or affirming something is good because the majority thinks so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

get off your high horse .wikipaedia as a resource ...really. Ihave nothing but respect for you but not much of that. goodbye

@kotuku @OGM please keep the discussion to the thread topic and don’t let it slide into personal attacks.