Thread: Police called out for Duck shooting

Do not ask for evidence! And dont tell them that shot cannot physically go that far etc etc. That is all information that you can pull out if it should proceed any further. Which will be valuable to prove innocence of any crime. Keep all of that info and knowledge to yourselves. And write down everything that was said, and done. Write down officers names and numbers. Write down conversations - everything. Cos if it should proceed to court, if you have taken the time to record all the details, and can prove that you did it on the day or the day after, then that written information is admissible as evidence. Keep a copy of that info, and post another copy to yourself and dont open it upon receiving it - proof that you did it at the time of the incident.

Originally Posted by Ground Control

Were you the only hunter that had access and was there that day ?
Can the Police and complainant prove it was you and only you there if it’s a public / DOC area ?
Did you admit/say that you shot in the direction of the neighbour ?

On this night only one shooter present, Sunday evening one week ago 4 legal/legitimate shooters present in area.
And yes pointed out highly unlikely on direction of shooting towards house, as the birds were almost 100% presenting from downstream. (so 90 degrees to house direction)
Complainant farm boundary 250mts from shooting position, apparently came to boundary to check shooters position before contacting Police.

Originally Posted by gmm

Section 48 Arms Act

Discharging firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon in or near dwellinghouse or public place
A person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months, or to a fine not exceeding $10,000, if the person, without reasonable excuse, discharges a firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon in or near a dwellinghouse or a public place so as to—
(a)
endanger property; or
(b)
endanger, annoy, or frighten any person.

This is the legislation, the burden of proof is on the Police to prove that an offence has been committed.

In this case they need to prove the following.
- Without reasonable excuse
-An intent to endanger property, endanger, annoy or frighten any person. The intent is cover by the words "so as to"

The shooter had a reasonable excuse, proven by DOC permit and duck hunting licence.
If there was no intent to endanger, annoy or frighten anyone, there is no offence.

There is no such offence as discharging a firearm in an unsafe direction.

If they do send you a letter I would challenge it as if the circumstances are as you describe (not questioning you at all), then it is clear there is no offence. If you do receive a letter I would dispute it. To be honest it sounds like the Police in this case are not fully aware of the requirements of the legislation and you should have no problems.
Be interested to see how this goes.
All the best

That’s interesting, the council or DOC I think, about twice a year, about 11 pm let strip at the ponds about 3-400 metres from my place. There’s two or three barrage’s, I’m guessing they are shooting on the ground. I can lay in bed and judge the distance and direction. We get no notice this is going to happen. 111 next time and a complaint me thinks.
On Sunday, after opening day, there was one solitary shot from the same place about midnight,
Maybe a pissed off shooter getting a few on the water?

Originally Posted by Husky1600

...And dont tell them that shot cannot physically go that far etc etc. That is all information that you can pull out if it should proceed any further. Which will be valuable to prove innocence of any crime. Keep all of that info and knowledge to yourselves. ...

Why keep secret evidence of innocence until a prosecution, when you can use it to avoid the prosecution altogether?

This sort of thing, situations like this, always troubles me, let me feel anxiety when going to somewhere I am not familiar with, Even I followed all the rules, but still there are chances of getting called and the cost is I can `t bear. Thus, any suggestions...

Originally Posted by Cigar

Why keep secret evidence of innocence until a prosecution, when you can use it to avoid the prosecution altogether?

Agreed again, this is not a TV show.
I very well would of usually been present which is another reason I am going to fund whatever needs to be done and follow this through.
Had I been present and it turns out this complaint does or could lead to license revocation that would of been my income gone from an industry I been in full time for 35+ years.

Darned if I know how a pellet can be matched to an exact gun or time. This may be classed as a vexatious complaint and wSting police time.

Originally Posted by PestNightshooter

This was my first instinct to want to follow up on, but will the police even be interested in or take seriously a false complaint allegation.
And should that matter be raised with the local area police?

I would

This cant be true. I have never had steel shot reach any duck what so-ever. And some of them have been very close.

Hi Guys

Just to clarify something here. With legislation in order for an offence to be committed, there has to be evidence to confirm that each and every ingredient which constitutes the offence is present. It is important to break each part of the offence down to understand what has to be proven for an offence to have been committed. (see the wording in my earlier post)
First ingredient is "without reasonable excuse". In this case the shooter had a DOC permit and a licence allowing them to hunt ducks. That is a reasonable excuse, so no offence committed. There is simply on offence committed here as there is a reasonable excuse for the discharge of the firearm.
Irrespective of if anyone was annoyed or even endangered, there is a clear reasonable excuse.
There is no offence here, end of story as all the ingredients which constitute an offence cannot be proven.

I cannot see this going any further as the shooter under the circumstances outlined as not committed any offence and the Police on review will clearly see this. They cannot issue a warning or anything if no offence has been committed.

Originally Posted by Cigar

Why keep secret evidence of innocence until a prosecution, when you can use it to avoid the prosecution altogether?

It sounds like there is no prosecution, only a written warning which is potentially worse than going through a prosecution which means you have no right to defend your innocence. A letter pointing out the impossibility of the claim and demanding that any formal warning be withdrawn would be the best action.

Originally Posted by Fssprecision

There is a lot to lose if this does not got correctly, without doubt I would contact Nick Taylor, specialist firearms lawyer. A letter from him wont be cheap but could easily put this to bed before it escalates.

Nicholas J.B.Taylor www.firearmslawyer.co.nz n.taylor@civicchambers.co.nz

As recommended by COLFO. They emailed out all relevant info quite a while ago re what to do if you are contacted by Police regarding any firearms matters. Good luck with this matter.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

It sounds like there is no prosecution, only a written warning which is potentially worse than going through a prosecution which means you have no right to defend your innocence. A letter pointing out the impossibility of the claim and demanding that any formal warning be withdrawn would be the best action.

Agreed. That's the starting point. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it until you need to.

Yes, the Police cannot issue you with a warning letter unless there is an offence that has been committed and can be proven.

And lets face it. The Police are not going to conduct a forensic investigation with shot sizes and rust comparisons etc. This is hardly a murder scene.

Keep things in perspective. Wait until any such letter arrives and then deal with it

Originally Posted by BSA270

Nicholas J.B.Taylor www.firearmslawyer.co.nz n.taylor@civicchambers.co.nz

As recommended by COLFO. They emailed out all relevant info quite a while ago re what to do if you are contacted by Police regarding any firearms matters. Good luck with this matter.

I’d be using the expert if it was me should be able to nip it in the butt. Good to see they had everything stored correctly and all the permits they needed, just means the police couldn’t do anything on the spot.

And six officers is a bit over the top there was a gang funeral at a bar by my house in the weekend not a cop to be seen. Gangsters riding there motorbikes up and down the roads disrupting traffic. Would have liked 3 cop cars and 6 officers around here