Thread: Police doing a 3 yearly check of my safe for my E Endorsement?

Originally Posted by JWB

First part wrong, second part right.
There is no requirement for a safe for "A" firearms. That is a choice you make. The requirement is for a container, or receptacle of stout construction, to lock your firearms in when they are not under your immediate supervision.
There is no requirement anywhere in the regulations requiring that said lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle of stout construction has to be bolted to the building structure, or a condition that the contents of said lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle of stout construction be recorded.
You are merely required to have said lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle of stout construction available to you on your premises for when you are required to lock up a firearm.
The police tell enough lies without us repeating their bullshit.

(

Huh. The more you know. By the end of the year what he wrote down will probably be out of date hopefully.

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Originally Posted by JWB

......There is no requirement anywhere in the regulations requiring that said lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle of stout construction has to be bolted to the building structure.....

That is correct, however don't forget:

19 Conditions relating to security precautions

1.(c) the holder shall take reasonable steps to ensure that any firearm in the holder’s possession is secured against theft:

You may have a good quality gun cabinet or safe. However, if they can be removed from the premises because it's not secured to the premises then the firearms aren't secured against theft. Some are just too heavy to move easily. I've seen many hundreds that weren't and could easily have been dragged out of the premises by one thief let alone two. Plenty of firearms have been stolen this way.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

That's interesting. It doesn't state that the firearms must be stored in the approved storage, but "may" be stored there. A definite loop hole I would be exploiting if ever charged with insecure storage. (read JWB's link which didn't transfer to here)

You must still take reasonable steps to include any firearm in your possession is secured against theft though. The reference to a gun cabinet, safe, rack and strong room is that these are included as lawful. I could be wrong legally on this but I don't see why any other method of security (whatever that may be) that prevents theft couldn't be used.

Had my check today. Nice polite young cop, did not even ask about any A cat firearms, checked the serial numbers of my endorsed items against his list and went away happy. I could not fault his visit.

Originally Posted by gundoc

Had my check today. Nice polite young cop, did not even ask about any A cat firearms, checked the serial numbers of my endorsed items against his list and went away happy. I could not fault his visit.

had mine a few months back, same deal only wanted to see my E-cats, nothing else

Originally Posted by Sonicjoe

The last time I moved address the Palmerston North arms officer asked for my serial numbers, to which I asked if the law had been changed surrounding providing the serial numbers. He then assured me it was the law that I had to provide them. I was unsure if there had been a change to the law so I gave them anyway...not impressed.

Just a quick thought - as to prove what they do with this info. Ask them 3 months later to provide you a list of serial numbers of firearms that you are holding. If they say they don't have them, file a official request for all info held about you.
Would be interesting to see if they can find the record.

Originally Posted by Beaker

Just a quick thought - as to prove what they do with this info. Ask them 3 months later to provide you a list of serial numbers of firearms that you are holding. If they say they don't have them, file a official request for all info held about you.
Would be interesting to see if they can find the record.

That sounds like a fun game

Originally Posted by Beaker

Just a quick thought - as to prove what they do with this info. Ask them 3 months later to provide you a list of serial numbers of firearms that you are holding. If they say they don't have them, file a official request for all info held about you.
Would be interesting to see if they can find the record.

Actually I did this and asked for ALL information held about me and because I wasn't looking for firearm related information I didn't realize that my registered firearms and any firearm license related notes were missing.

Originally Posted by Jexla

Actually I did this and asked for ALL information held about me and because I wasn't looking for firearm related information I didn't realize that my registered firearms and any firearm license related notes were missing.

So you asked for all, but didn't get all. Interesting, and more so, what else they have on file was missing from the result.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

That is correct, however don't forget:

19 Conditions relating to security precautions

1.(c) the holder shall take reasonable steps to ensure that any firearm in the holder’s possession is secured against theft:

You may have a good quality gun cabinet or safe. However, if they can be removed from the premises because it's not secured to the premises then the firearms aren't secured against theft. Some are just too heavy to move easily. I've seen many hundreds that weren't and could easily have been dragged out of the premises by one thief let alone two. Plenty of firearms have been stolen this way.

Wrong again.
More misinformation, but this is worse. It appears to come from a police vettor , or is there another reason that you are trespassing in other peoples lockups. One who apparently is familiar with the regulations but chooses to make shit up.

19 Conditions relating to security precautions
(1) Every firearms licence shall be subject to the following conditionsc) the holder shall take reasonable steps to ensure that any firearm in the holder’s possession is secured against theft:
(2) On and after 1 July 1993 the reasonable steps required by subclause (1)(c) shall include—(a) keeping on the holder’s premises—(i) a lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle of stout construction in which firearms may be stored; etc.

Fairly clear I would have thought. The reasonable steps include locking your firearms in a cabinet when not under your personal supervision. No requirement for a safe as previously pointed out. No weight requirement. No requirement to fix to the premises structure.
Assuming that you are a vettor, perhaps you are unaware that as an agent of the state, you are only permitted to do as the law specifically allows. Anything else is Trespass.
No other reasonable steps are specified, but a reasonable person would probably lock their premises when they leave their property.

Originally Posted by JWB

..... or is there another reason that you are trespassing in other peoples lockups. One who apparently is familiar with the regulations but chooses to make shit up.

Calm down dude. I have no idea what you're talking about ..."trespassing in other peoples lockups"????. What's is that all about?
I mentioned safe as most people seem to refer to a gun cabinet as a safe. Strictly speaking of course a safe is a different beast so in that respect you're correct. Nobody mentioned any weight requirement?

What part of the following do you not understand?

19 Conditions relating to security precautions

1.(c) the holder shall take reasonable steps to ensure that any firearm in the holder’s possession is secured against theft:

Fairly clear I would have thought.

Obviously, if your security can easily be removed from the premises then it's not secured against theft. As an example, according to your interpretation of "secured against theft" leaving a gun rack with firearms locked within lying on the floor, table or elsewhere is perfectly acceptable. Thankfully, most people have a lot more common sense than you appear to have and make sure that their firearm security is secured against theft.

Originally Posted by Beaker

So you asked for all, but didn't get all. Interesting, and more so, what else they have on file was missing from the result.

Exactly the point, how can I have any confidence in the system if one thing was "forgotten" for whatever reason, why not more?

Originally Posted by Beaker

So you asked for all, but didn't get all. Interesting, and more so, what else they have on file was missing from the result.

The best reason I can think of to pull the govt info on yourself is to have an independent record of what they say they have on you

Should something arise down the road and they say that they know something, you can say that they only know as much as they have given you

Last time I did it it cost nothing but I had to go to the Post Office and sign for registered mail but that was a looong time ago..

Originally Posted by Tommy

What a cunt

Why. Did he lie??

Originally Posted by jim160

Why. Did he lie??

Nope, and I didn't say he did. The implied "well you'll be recorded as being hostile to our bullshit pseudo register" is a cunt move though.