Thread: Police seize 39 guns in raid at house in rural south Auckland

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Paranoia aye.. is a pot calling the kettle black?

@300CALMAN

Who is talking about "paranoia"? Covert state surveillance in one form or another is part of normal life.

Overt surveillance (assuming competent operators) is deniable harassment.

Originally Posted by Cordite

@kotuku

Looks like you had a double one.

well Cordite im so pleased my fears are allayed with an expert like you on this case.
Im curious would you know if ihad an orgasm or wiped my arse or the difference between??oops sorry yes you do -how silly of old me eh!

Originally Posted by Cordite

@300CALMAN

Who is talking about "paranoia"? Covert state surveillance in one form or another is part of normal life.

Overt surveillance (assuming competent operators) is deniable harassment.

Haha yes I think there is enough information out to assume that, nothing would surprise me anymore.

Overt surveillance is a way to turn up the heat on some, someone can do it just pretending to do surveillance. Have a Black Power pad near where we live and they are touchy about people looking at them. Don't ask how I know. They do have reason to be shifty and suspicious anyway because of their dealing activities. If I was the cops, I'd make sure I slow down a bit every time I drove past that place. They would soon catch on, much quicker than they did at school.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Overt surveillance is a way to turn up the heat on some, someone can do it just pretending to do surveillance. Have a Black Power pad near where we live and they are touchy about people looking at them. Don't ask how I know. They do have reason to be shifty and suspicious anyway because of their dealing activities. If I was the cops, I'd make sure I slow down a bit every time I drove past that place. They would soon catch on, much quicker than they did at school.

They are actually stupid enough to do majorly illegal shit right at the pad, I think it was BP Rotorua that got raided a while back and they had a full blown lab set up inside.

Originally Posted by kotuku

well Cordite im so pleased my fears are allayed with an expert like you on this case.
Im curious would you know if ihad an orgasm or wiped my arse or the difference between??oops sorry yes you do -how silly of old me eh!

@kotuku

I'm humbled by your mention of my expertise. As a 4-star Armchair General, my power of rectospective insight is practically infinite! Yet, I try my very best to retain my natural humility.

Originally Posted by Cordite

@kotuku

I'm humbled by your mention of my expertise. As a 4-star Armchair General, my power of rectospective insight is practically infinite! Yet, I try my very best to retain my natural humility.

youre piss poor at sarcasm! my observation -funny how the possibility of a slow descent into a psychotic state aint been considered. anyhow like the more sensible until all is revealed were all grasping at straws. wishhart of course -well sensationalism does sell books!
must away got more important things to do than hang around like wet washing on here!

Bear in mind, Just because you are paranoid, does not mean you are wrong.......Or if you are right does that still mean it counts as paranoia?

On a more serious note, I would like to believe that Police have more integrity that what was described, especially here in NZ and I would very much like to believe they could not be manipulated into doing something like this (if he is telling the truth). However I do not have the same level of trust in those above the police who make the decisions. You only have to look at the likes of Cahill, and O'Conner to realise the slag and dross usually rises to the top.... If this gents claims are correct and the frontline officers are doing what he describes, then is it because the officer believe what they have been told by those in charge? And do we not have some sort of checks / balances to ensure the safety and integrity of our system. This does smell like an abuse of power, but how much s true and how much is not, it is hard to tell.

I remember reading about someone who was called paranoid as he reckoned the FBI was spying on him and it turned out to be true!

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Originally Posted by timattalon

Bear in mind, Just because you are paranoid, does not mean you are wrong.......Or if you are right does that still mean it counts as paranoia?

On a more serious note, I would like to believe that Police have more integrity that what was described, especially here in NZ and I would very much like to believe they could not be manipulated into doing something like this (if he is telling the truth). However I do not have the same level of trust in those above the police who make the decisions. You only have to look at the likes of Cahill, and O'Conner to realise the slag and dross usually rises to the top.... If this gents claims are correct and the frontline officers are doing what he describes, then is it because the officer believe what they have been told by those in charge? And do we not have some sort of checks / balances to ensure the safety and integrity of our system. This does smell like an abuse of power, but how much s true and how much is not, it is hard to tell.

@timattalon

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11892103

I suspect this is not an isolated case, nor that the convicted perpetrator acted alone, but rather that he was a bully among bullies, acting in a (blue) mob and taking the fall. Let the word go round down the station that such and such is an arsehole and we should be careful of him - and you suddenly get a lot of cop cars driving past that person's house, checking around his business, etc. and all without any paper trail or conspiracy. Get on the wrong side of the force and you may discover that neither the MM or BP are the biggest patched gang in the country. Yes, it smells.

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

I remember reading about someone who was called paranoid as he reckoned the FBI was spying on him and it turned out to be true!

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...veillance.html

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...veillance.html

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@Russian 22

Someone paranoid may imagine surveillance is being carried out -- which may or may not be the case, but if they appear mentally stressed / paranoid people are not likely to believe them.

The other way to consider it is of course that overt surveillance / official stalking can actually contribute, or even cause, someone to have a mental breakdown...


To quote from your link:

AE Hotchner said he believed the FBI's monitoring of the Nobel Prize-winning author, over suspicions of his links to Cuba, "substantially contributed to his anguish and his suicide" 50 years ago.

Hotchner wrote in The New York Times that he had "regretfully misjudged" his friend's fears of federal investigators, which were dismissed as paranoid delusions for years after his death.

In 1983 the FBI released a 127-page file it had kept on Hemingway since the 1940s, confirming he was watched by agents working for J. Edgar Hoover, who took a personal interest in his case.

Hotchner described being met off a train by Hemingway in Ketchum, Idaho, in November 1960, for a pheasant shoot with their friend Duke MacMullen.

Hemingway, struggling to complete his last work, complained "the feds" had "tailed us all the way" and that agents were poring over his accounts in a local bank that they passed on their journey.

"It's the worst hell," Hemingway said. "The goddamnedest hell. They've bugged everything. That's why we're using Duke's car. Mine's bugged. Everything's bugged. Can't use the phone. Mail intercepted."

Later that month he was committed for psychiatric care at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, where he received electric shock treatment. He attempted suicide several times before being released.

A few days after returning home to Ketchum, he shot himself in the head with his favourite shotgun aged 61.

"In the years since, I have tried to reconcile Ernest's fear of the FBI, which I regretfully misjudged, with the reality of the FBI file," wrote Hotchner, the author of 'Papa Hemingway'.

"I now believe he truly sensed the surveillance, and that it substantially contributed to his anguish and his suicide," he said.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

And the 6th line quotes him as saying no protection order was served...

Certainly seems that there is more to the story than what has been reported.

Yes, but they were doing both at the same time. He may be 100% correct that no PO had been served previously. However that is what they were there to do at that time. Serve the order and remove there firearms at the same time.

Originally Posted by Kudu

Yes, but they were doing both at the same time. He may be 100% correct that no PO had been served previously. However that is what they were there to do at that time. Serve the order and remove there firearms at the same time.

It doesn't say anything about previously though, they quote him as saying 'no PO was served' when talking about the raid. Could just be the usual hopeless reporting either way.

Wouldn't be the first time cops have lied to try and cover their asses if they're in the wrong, the times they get caught do make you wonder how often they do it and get away with it.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

It doesn't say anything about previously though, they quote him as saying 'no PO was served' when talking about the raid. Could just be the usual hopeless reporting either way.

Wouldn't be the first time cops have lied to try and cover their asses if they're in the wrong, the times they get caught do make you wonder how often they do it and get away with it.

If you listen to the audio of the guy talking, when he says that no order was served, he was saying that while the cops were still outside while he was refusing to let them in.

Perhaps the cops served it after they got in and after he had finished talking to the media? And before the chief cop told the media it had been served.

Makes more sense to me than taking the whole AOS and then just not serving the order they went there to serve.