Thread: Really? How hard is it

Originally Posted by ebf

Kinda like comparing the crash rate of a WRC or IndyCar driver with the little old lady only driving to her local Countdown, and then coming to the conclusion that the racing driver has piss poor driving skills

So sure you want to stick with this line of reasoning Gimpster ?

But the fact that the firearm was slung on the back and he was helping the already incapacitated guy up indicates that he was no longer in a pressure situation. At this point he was driving home past the same supermarket as the old lady. I won't mention the statistics that point to race drivers having a substantially greater probability of a crash on the road than the non race driver. Guess they just can't handle it when everyone is not going the same direction.

AOS AR15s have 2 point butt slings, when they sling it hangs downwards on their non master side, they aren't slung on their backs.

Originally Posted by Savage1

AOS AR15s have 2 point butt slings, when they sling it hangs downwards on their non master side, they aren't slung on their backs.

Fair enough, but at the time of the incident he would not have been in a particularly stressful situation.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Fair enough, but at the time of the incident he would not have been in a particularly stressful situation.

If it was me, I'd feel it wasn't a stressful situation once crazed nut job who had a string of convictions including saying he had a bomb on board a bus, was hog tied in the paddy wagon. Just handcuffing someone doesn't necessarily turn angry man into Mother Theresa.

Considering the number of times firearms are loaded and carried by Police, including front line, AOS and STG, the number of accidental discharges does seem to be quite low.

GM, just because the guy is the ground and restrained does not mean the situation is calm. The person can still be kicking out, trying to bite you, spitting at you etc. their family or friends may getting involved, or their dog could be using you as a chew toy

True, but accounts of this incident point to quite a calm situation at the time of the incident. Personally I back the police 200%. Just playing 'devils advocate' here.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

True, but accounts of this incident point to quite a calm situation at the time of the incident. Personally I back the police 200%. Just playing 'devils advocate' here.

Sometimes the message gets lost.

Having been in similar situations I can actually see how this could happen. Regardless, there is a copper out there feeling like utter rubbish right now, and I seriously feel for him.

As an aside, I'm still amazed by some (a lot) of the retarded and red neck responses towards "percieved" offenders on this site. A lot of people are quick to defend the actions of cops by saying, you don't know the circumstances, but no one seems to afford the same, rational thinking to the other party. Why is that?

In this particular situation there are only losers but I have been impressed by the Police response. No real surprise though, Glen Dunbier is a sharp operator.

One offender. Aos squad knew that enroute.
offender calmly walked out of house and across grass with empty hands raised above head as asked,then lay down voluntarily.
Was cuffed.
House was searched and suspects firearm was located under bed.
Officer who was grasping him by shoulders and elbows to lift suspect to his feet had his firearm discharge causing one bullet wound to upper chest area of suspect.

oops.

Mechanical or user at fault ?

If it was me lying in Hospital I doubt id really care one way or the other in the grand scheme of things.

Originally Posted by ebf

Kinda like comparing the crash rate of a WRC or IndyCar driver with the little old lady only driving to her local Countdown, and then coming to the conclusion that the racing driver has piss poor driving skills

So sure you want to stick with this line of reasoning Gimpster ?

Not really since I already said I wasn't making a serious comparison

Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

As an aside, I'm still amazed by some (a lot) of the retarded and red neck responses towards "percieved" offenders on this site. A lot of people are quick to defend the actions of cops by saying, you don't know the circumstances, but no one seems to afford the same, rational thinking to the other party. Why is that?

I do

Originally Posted by gimp

I do

Gah, should have said 'not many seem too' not 'no one'. Inconsistent statements in my post. I apologise

Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

Gah, should have said 'not many seem too' not 'no one'. Inconsistent statements in my post. I apologise

It's all good

Originally Posted by Savage1

The courier was the victim of a ricochet, not a misidentified target.

The IPCA's report on the matter suggests otherwise, particularly points 160 and 162. Not to mention the report's conclusions:

CONCLUSIONS

The actions of Officers 81 and 84, in firing at Stephen McDonald, were justified and therefore not contrary to law.

However, the following were undesirable:

• NorthComms did not establish and maintain firm command and control over the police operation;
• the AOS tactical response was compromised by limited communications and by the number of members available;
• Officers 81 and 84’s shooting was inaccurate and therefore unsafe;
• the failure by Officer 84 to identify risks in the line of fire;
• the AOS commander’s dismantling of the weapons of Officers 81 and 84; and
• the post-incident process was neither well coordinated nor sufficiently robust.