Thread: Relocating gun safe on same property.

Haha no I managed to break the chain of safes by using a keysafe with a combination code lock. Don't want to get stuck in an infinite loop of safes, 3 is enough.

Originally Posted by Fatberg

This was my experience recently. The AO wanted to see:

1) A keysafe to store the key to the gun safe.
2) Another lockable cabinet or safe to store rifle bolts.
3) A steel gun safe. According to him they no longer accept anything made from timber or ply because readily available battery powered tools can easily break into them in less than 10 minutes of sustained attack.
4) Somewhere separate and lockable to store ammo (lockable ammo box in the safe was acceptable).

So long story short access to my firearms and ammo is spread across 4 different lockable containers... To assemble a working gun would take quite some effort which is apparently the point.

Not that I have any issue with the above, if it means that I've demonstrated I store weapons safely then great. However this doesn't change the fact that the police seem to be enforcing something that isn't actually law.

You do know that list is beyond the legal scope and the AO's representative is beyond his remit legally to "enforce" anything, beyond the requirements as written into current law. My last inspection I found it necessary to make it quite clear I knew exactly what the law, as written, required. I also found his line of questioning disturbing and had to literally put my hand in the air and actually say "enough"," this stops now!"

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

You do know that list is beyond the legal scope and the AO's representative is beyond his remit legally to "enforce" anything, beyond the requirements as written into current law. My last inspection I found it necessary to make it quite clear I knew exactly what the law, as written, required. I also found his line of questioning disturbing and had to literally put my hand in the air and actually say "enough"," this stops now!"

Yes I am aware, this was for a first time licence though and I didn't want to rock the boat after waiting near on 1 year to get to the point of having my setup inspected. I just rolled with it to get it over with to be honest.

Safe arrangement aside the questioning I was subject to didn't seem inappropriate or excessive to me. I was expecting worse.

Originally Posted by Fatberg

This was my experience recently. The AO wanted to see:

1) A keysafe to store the key to the gun safe.
2) Another lockable cabinet or safe to store rifle bolts.
3) A steel gun safe. According to him they no longer accept anything made from timber or ply because readily available battery powered tools can easily break into them in less than 10 minutes of sustained attack.
4) Somewhere separate and lockable to store ammo (lockable ammo box in the safe was acceptable).

So long story short access to my firearms and ammo is spread across 4 different lockable containers... To assemble a working gun would take quite some effort which is apparently the point.

Not that I have any issue with the above, if it means that I've demonstrated I store weapons safely then great. However this doesn't change the fact that the police seem to be enforcing something that isn't actually law.

Hi mr AO, please show me the relevant section in the arms act. I've just googled the act on my phone so you can show me.

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Hi mr AO, please show me the relevant section in the arms act. I've just googled the act on my phone so you can show me.

you want to post it here?

Phil H......thats a normal thing for most I would hazard to guess.....if getting up for hunt in morning I always get all my shite sorted night before or it becomes a gentlemans hours hunt.....and DO NOT want to wake up the house dragon in the early hours rattling around in guncabinet.....one could say the rifle propped up beside the bed is arguably safer than in cabinet should you get unwelcome visitors during the wee small hours....

Originally Posted by Fatberg

This was my experience recently. The AO wanted to see:

1) A keysafe to store the key to the gun safe.
2) Another lockable cabinet or safe to store rifle bolts.
3) A steel gun safe. According to him they no longer accept anything made from timber or ply because readily available battery powered tools can easily break into them in less than 10 minutes of sustained attack.
4) Somewhere separate and lockable to store ammo (lockable ammo box in the safe was acceptable).

So long story short access to my firearms and ammo is spread across 4 different lockable containers... To assemble a working gun would take quite some effort which is apparently the point.

Not that I have any issue with the above, if it means that I've demonstrated I store weapons safely then great. However this doesn't change the fact that the police seem to be enforcing something that isn't actually law.

You cannot store ammo in the safe with the firearms. They must be stored separately. They can be outside the safe or on top of it but not within.

There is no requirement to “lock” away ammo. The provisions originally came from the 1983 act to avoid firearms and ammo being stored together and therefore accessible to kids. The act at the time wasn’t focused on criminals and guns being stolen but rather firearms safety

My understanding on ammo within the safe is it is ok IF it is a separate lockbox within the safe - ie safe within a safe.

Mine - IF they get to the guns - they still have to deal with another lockbox inside the safe - I could have an argument. - But outer safe is 5 inch's thick and inner safe is welded in and is another 8mm with two over-specced locks.

Actually - IF they get to the guns - they be free to take them cause the estimates is with he right gear they would spend 4-8 hours getting there - and that work is just too much for the value they would obtain.

It's no different to buying a new safe and installing it to accomodate new purchases. There is no requirement to notify when you do this.
Naturally common sense which you appear to have would dictate that you attach it properly.

On another note at my last inspection it was noted that two of my "working rifles" had bolts in but no magazines which are stored elsewhere.
I was told of the "requirement" to remove and store bolts separatly. I politely pointed to some of the other contents of the safe, .22 semis, semi and o/u shotguns and lever actions and asked about them. That was the end of that conversation.

Once they break into this 'keysafe' they have complete access to all your safes. The only real option if for that key to be on your person and not in your house at all when you're at work.

Originally Posted by mikee

you want to post it here?

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/...est/whole.html

Originally Posted by T.FOYE

Once they break into this 'keysafe' they have complete access to all your safes. The only real option if for that key to be on your person and not in your house at all when you're at work.

I was just doing what I was told I needed to by the AO get a gun licence and sharing the experience here. I'm not saying that this is a good solution.

The keysafe is small and well hidden so if someone did manage to find it and then break into it and get the gun safe key they still wouldn't have a working rifle as the bolt is kept in another safe accessed by combination code. And the key to the ammunition box in the safe is somewhere else again. This is apparently what the AO wanted to see - great difficulty in assembling a working firearm. Of course this theory falls apart as soon as you have a firearm without a removable bolt...

The biggest risk in all this is that I lose access to my own rifles from having to jump through so many hoops before I can even get to them.

It really doesn't matter how safe your firearms and ammunition are stored if the criminals turn up and hold you or your beloved at knife point or some other physical threat.

I view security as what is required to make to local idiots not bother trying.

If it comes down to a choice of me or my beloved being injured or giving up my firearms then it isn't a hard choice.
The proposed gun register will make it easier for criminal groups to visit you or me and ask for our firearms.

Could someone more computer litterate than I please cut n paste (or quote the correct section/subsection /subsub section!) the pertinent piece of legislation re security provisions for storing firearms??
Despite using half a dozen different key words in the "search within this act" function on the Arms Act 1983 page of the NZ Legislation web page I was unable to locate said details. I thought putting the term "secure storage of firearms and ammunition" in the search box would elicit something, as thats the official term they use....but nah! round and round the mulberry bush we go

Problem is I don't think there is legislation defining it.
The police have guidelines currently on their website. Currently as in if there are now apsects no longer to their liking (requirement?) they would be edited out, wouldn't they...?

The guidelines still specify specs for wooden security. Go figure what music sheet some AO's are singing from.

https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def...e-guidance.pdf