Thread: A sad day

If the serial number on the bolt matches the receiver number you should be OK. If not, remove the bolthead, put marking blue on the lugs (I use whiteboard marker) carefully insert, close and pull it back and move it back and forth slightly. Remove it, if the whiteboard marker is scratched off both you should be good, if in doubt take it to a gunsmith.

The bolt is hardened, I dont know that they would bend....I'd more suspect it hairline cracked and then let go fully next time....I'll ask some pro opinions on it.

What year and model enfield? Did the bolt number match the receiver number?

For that pattern of failure its almost like the gas went through the primer, into the bolthead past the striker and blew the back off....

What factory ammo?

can we have pics of the cases? your hand loaded ones as well?

Originally Posted by steven

The bolt is hardened, I dont know that they would bend....I'd more suspect it hairline cracked and then let go fully next time....I'll ask some pro opinions on it.

that was my thought too steven ,based on the apparent chip blown from the bolt.
in fact tertle on here is a .303 officianado ,he may well be able to shed some light on the mystery .Ive had ex milammo case heads seperate in my no4mk1*which is a little disconcerting but never anything like this thank good.
Ive have 2x 12g rds go off in an open breech once -Sheeeeeiiiiiiittttt!traced it to my incorrect gun assembly.
will follow this with interest.

Also what powder was in the light load and how many grains?

Good old metal fatigue showing up again.

As the years go by we may see more of these types of failures with very old rifles.

Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Good old metal fatigue showing up again.

As the years go by we may see more of these types of failures with very old rifles.

Well the comment from one is,

1. Steel does not crystalize with age. Steel as it cools forms crystals with noticeable, under the microscope, boundaries separating the big crystals. Variations in boundary physical and chemical properties can affect material performance.

2, I agree that the culprit was handloading. I am not a handloader and do not intend to. From what I have read, reduced handloads can be very dangerous. SARCO's office manager Glenn DeGrooter was killed by his using reduced loads in a Winchester Lee Navy rifle. It was explained to me that there is a balance point of powder vs. available oxygen in the cartridge case. Less powder in the case and more air caused a "double detonation" which increased chamber pressures. A crack was started and full loads finished the lot off. Perhaps more knowledgeable people can expand on this.

1. Is my understanding also.

Ive heard of 2. before, elsewhere....so I suggest the light load might be the cause....so we need to know what that load was.

The serial isn't matching but the bolt is tight as you deceived with the marker. It was checked for head spacing when I was given it.

The load is based on Ed Harris' "the load", which is 13gn of Red Dot. I put a .311 sized GC165gn hard cast pill on 13gn of AS30N primed in CCI #200 primed cases trimmed to 2.22. This charge fills about as much space as a factory load in the case. This load puts about 32000psi from memory almost 10000 less than the max sammi

13grs of powder in a 303 seems like a little bit, do you use a filler or is that powder big and fill the case?

Well I hd to go look that one up....

Ed Harris articles for reduced loads in Reloading and Ammunition Forum

"The Load" has shown complete success in the .30-40 Krag, .303 British......"

Hmmm...

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

a pistol powder.....

YMMV as they say.

Braver man than I.

regards

Hi Eion

Might I ask, did the broken bolt piece jump out of the action and hit you in the face or did the recoil push it back into your face? You mentioned getting stuff in your forearm and shooting hand. Were those fragments from the break area? Did those come through the magazine well (assuming the mag was out)?

Any chance of more photo's?

The bolt is hardened, I dont know that they would bend...

Apparently the bolt can bend is is supposed to be 'the way' Lee Enfield bolts fail - they bend up in the middle 'like a cobra' as someone described it to me. I've never seen a photo of this.



303Guy

Originally Posted by 303Guy

Hi Eion

Might I ask, did the broken bolt piece jump out of the action and hit you in the face or did the recoil push it back into your face? You mentioned getting stuff in your forearm and shooting hand. Were those fragments from the break area? Did those come through the magazine well (assuming the mag was out)?

Any chance of more photo's?

Apparently the bolt can bend is is supposed to be 'the way' Lee Enfield bolts fail - they bend up in the middle 'like a cobra' as someone described it to me. I've never seen a photo of this.



303Guy

What photos would you like to see? I was shooting off a bag and was holding it like you would a machine gun. Two hands on the stock left hand overhand grip with cheak resting on it. It was either the bolt or the bits of wood it chipped off that hit my trigger hand but I'm not sure about the other arm. Doesn't make much sense to me. I'm still not sure if it was the unretained part of the bolt sliding back and then returning under pressure of the firing spring or a chunk of bolt. From how hard it hit I'm thinking the bolt slid back.

What photos would you like to see?

I'm not sure. Anything there is to see I guess. Photo's of all the parts of the bolt and the action maybe.

This is a most curious event, possibly very rare. Being a Lee Enfield enthusiast and shooter I would really like to know what happened there and naturally whether it could happen again - like to me! I've asked around on another boards and have heard several reports of cocking pieces jumping back quite violently due to a pieced primer and two instances of a 1903 Springfield where the cocking piece shot out the rear of the bolt hitting the shooter on the cheek (like a smack from Mike Tyson) and in the other the firing pin shot through the shooters sleeve and into the brush. In another instance the cocking piece of a No4 pushed back beyond cocking, cutting the shooters thumb. Yours is different in that you say the case was OK and that the bolt shattered. What could have happened? Have you thought of sending the rifle to some facility where it could be intelligently examined and assessed? I know of one group I would not send it too - these people have stated categorically that it could not happen and therefore it did not happen and in my words, "we will bury our heads in the sand and make this go away!" These guys claim to be the ex-spurts!

Thanks for the very interesting thread.