Thread: Soldier shot in shoulder during Tekapo live firing training exercise

Originally Posted by vbull

I don't even see the logic in New Zealand having an Army. Its such a waste for a country that can ill afford this luxury. The risk of having an invasion by a foreign power is almost impossible. Furthermore we have the USA and Australia as protectors.

We might as well lease out a few areas in the country to these foreign powers so they can do their own training at their expense and risk.

I guess that makes sense if you think of NZ as being a state of Australia like Tasmania, or one of the US like Hawaii........

Last time I checked, we aren't. Our armed forces are a (pathetically underfunded) guarantee of our national sovereignty.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Our forces do an amazing job and are very well respected. They are involved a lot in humanitarian, peace keeping and civil emergency operations as well. They took care of our central city after the big shake ups.

We didn't get sent into Fiji after the coup because the nzdf was not as experienced as the Fijians apparently.

Guys, I didn't want to cause offence. But seriously I don't see the need of having like 15000 people on a payroll for doing wargames and pretend missions. Just consider how much it could be spent on uplifting the plight of the poor people we see in places like tokoroa/ Gisborne etc. It'll keep these people happy so that we won't even need an army to put down unrest etc.

A lot of small countries have a protectorate agreement with large ones, for example if we had US, Australian, French and maybe even Chinese bases here, we could play them against each other and get significant payouts in terms of investment etc.


I'm just putting another point of view, devils advocate sort of, just to see what discussion points could be brought up.

Originally Posted by vbull

Guys, I didn't want to cause offence. But seriously I don't see the need of having like 15000 people on a payroll for doing wargames and pretend missions. Just consider how much it could be spent on uplifting the plight of the poor people we see in places like tokoroa/ Gisborne etc. It'll keep these people happy so that we won't even need an army to put down unrest etc.

A lot of small countries have a protectorate agreement with large ones, for example if we had US, Australian, French and maybe even Chinese bases here, we could play them against each other and get significant payouts in terms of investment etc.


I'm just putting another point of view, devils advocate sort of, just to see what discussion points could be brought up.

Vbull, fair enough.

The problem with having a military during peacetime is that they don't have a clearly necessary purpose, especially if (as in our case) it's been 70 years since we were last seriously threatened by another nation. Then complacency sets in, and the reason for their existence is forgotten.

To me the military are like an insurance policy. Better to have one than not.

Originally Posted by vbull

Guys, I didn't want to cause offence. But seriously I don't see the need of having like 15000 people on a payroll for doing wargames and pretend missions. Just consider how much it could be spent on uplifting the plight of the poor people we see in places like tokoroa/ Gisborne etc. It'll keep these people happy so that we won't even need an army to put down unrest etc.

A lot of small countries have a protectorate agreement with large ones, for example if we had US, Australian, French and maybe even Chinese bases here, we could play them against each other and get significant payouts in terms of investment etc.


I'm just putting another point of view, devils advocate sort of, just to see what discussion points could be brought up.

You've got to be on the piss if you think a Chinese base here is a good thing. They'd walk all over us and once they're here theyre always here.

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parkside dairy in Geraldine would loose a huge amount of money/custom if the boys n gals in green stopped passing through here.......

Fit and able young beneficiary's drafted I recon, leave school no job no quals in ya go and learn something....if nothing else respect for authority.

Originally Posted by vbull

Guys, I didn't want to cause offence. But seriously I don't see the need of having like 15000 people on a payroll for doing wargames and pretend missions. Just consider how much it could be spent on uplifting the plight of the poor people we see in places like tokoroa/ Gisborne etc. It'll keep these people happy so that we won't even need an army to put down unrest etc.

A lot of small countries have a protectorate agreement with large ones, for example if we had US, Australian, French and maybe even Chinese bases here, we could play them against each other and get significant payouts in terms of investment etc.


I'm just putting another point of view, devils advocate sort of, just to see what discussion points could be brought up.

Here's some reading. It takes a lot to grow a military and a lot to maintain the skills within. Do away with readiness and you do away with any ability to respond to a changing evironment.
http://www.army.mil.nz/downloads/pdf...ncept-2035.pdf

Also, read about the British army in the inter war years and also the guns vs butter analogy, which is sort of what you're talking about.


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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

We didn't get sent into Fiji after the coup because the nzdf was not as experienced as the Fijians apparently.

Unfortunately someone was yanking your chain big time . The men who where supposedly where going to sort out the Fijians where the very one's who trained them in the first place .

Originally Posted by vbull

Guys, I didn't want to cause offence. But seriously I don't see the need of having like 15000 people on a payroll for doing wargames and pretend missions. Just consider how much it could be spent on uplifting the plight of the poor people we see in places like tokoroa/ Gisborne etc. It'll keep these people happy so that we won't even need an army to put down unrest etc.

A lot of small countries have a protectorate agreement with large ones, for example if we had US, Australian, French and maybe even Chinese bases here, we could play them against each other and get significant payouts in terms of investment etc.


I'm just putting another point of view, devils advocate sort of, just to see what discussion points could be brought up.

I get the devils advocate thing but to your ideas/supposition....no ..no...no


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There was a time even fairly recently where our flag and the silver kiwi patch was worth more than the plate carrier it was affixed to.
We were known as fair and decent until pushed.

Then once pushed we were known as profoundly skilled in our craft.
Sadly with the advent of the modern neo/geo/religo cunt, that is by the wayside.

However to dismiss our services as unnecessary is just straight ignorance.

If you can't find the brain cells to figure out a nation undefended is a nation owned then enjoy your new leader.

Originally Posted by Tankd

Unfortunately someone was yanking your chain big time . The men who where supposedly where going to sort out the Fijians where the very one's who trained them in the first place .

Ah yeah. Probably haha.



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Originally Posted by gadgetman

Shit, they claim our pavlova, our flag (admittedly they change it a little bit) and our Phar lap. They are not so sure about Russel Crowe (but if he gets a conviction I am sure they will send him back.) But now they want the whole bloody country???? I dare them, I bloody dare them. They will become West Island in no time and it wont be an Australasian dollar, It will be a kiw-asian dollar!!!!!! Only rpoblem is us kiwis know we dont want a beach in the middle of an ISLAND!!!! Especially if it doesn't have water there.

Originally Posted by vbull

Guys, I didn't want to cause offence. But seriously I don't see the need of having like 15000 people on a payroll for doing wargames and pretend missions. Just consider how much it could be spent on uplifting the plight of the poor people we see in places like tokoroa/ Gisborne etc. It'll keep these people happy so that we won't even need an army to put down unrest etc.

A lot of small countries have a protectorate agreement with large ones, for example if we had US, Australian, French and maybe even Chinese bases here, we could play them against each other and get significant payouts in terms of investment etc.


I'm just putting another point of view, devils advocate sort of, just to see what discussion points could be brought up.

you didnt want to cause offence-well you did .spend money on the poor -firing money at a problem -politicians idea of a fix -often it just enables the bloody behaviour -hence we now have multi generations of beneficiaries.as an ex TF soldier one of the highlights of my career was to observe the limited service volunteer courses run by whom -the military!turned idle undisciplined aimless youngsters into productive disciplined persons with ambitions in life and iwas told 98%graduated to employment. hmm interesting too that idea now features in a lot of high schools.
my civilian career is mental health and if you'd seen half of what id seen in 4.75 decades in that filed itd make ya yoghurt curdle!a hell of a lot was the poor for want of a belittling term which you seeming use blase".
I realise youve got rights to self expression -we all have ,but sometimes old socialist peacenik pie in the sky nuts like this are better left unsaid particularly on forums like this.
finally who was out on the frontline with emergency services &police in Christchurch earthquakes-the bloody green machine -yes 17/18yr old partime soldiers and regular force and its not the first time! Id dsuggest you do a little research too and you may be suprised to find our defence force besides its primary role also does a lot of peacetime work in the pacific,and certainly one of the first called in if their is a natural disaster in polynesia. as for auusie -its now so far up trumps chuff they'll probably put his hairpiece on their new flag! their military machine is larger but in soldeir training Id back our own guys against em any time!!