Thread: Support for tighter Acat storage

Raising the standards on minimum Acat security is pointless & impractical. What about a small safe or wall rack for a home away from home for those hunting trips? Or the student who is already on a tight budget and that is all they could afford? Just to name a few. You can have easily defeated Acat security concealed and out of sight to be far more practical then as to "raise the standards" and further erode our sport more down the track.

There are smart ways of keeping storage concealed - Out of sight out of mind.

What's the bet people opting to increase security requirements are the ones that live in their own homes.

I'm a student with endorsements and I have to rent. Do you know how hard it is for me to get a rental, especially with the security requirements required for my endorsements? (and I have a bloody cat!)

As for buying "Ecat parts" like free standing pistols grips & mags etc only if you have an Ecat endorsement is another pointless suggestion. Those features work remarkably well on precision bolt action rifles among other platforms for a variety of shooting disciplines.

Why should those that choose to use such aesthetics on their firearms (because that is what they are at the end of the day don't forget...) suffer? And for what? It won't stop the crime that doesn't even exist as @Beavis has mentioned.

Originally Posted by Jexla

What's the bet people opting to increase security requirements are the ones that live in their own homes.

I'm a student with endorsements and I have to rent. Do you know how hard it is for me to get a rental, especially with the security requirements required for my endorsements? (and I have a bloody cat!)

Been a student no endorsements and still managed to find the coin for a safe, worth it considering the investments it held at the time. Have seen a few racks I.e. From gun city that are well bolted to studs (cheap set up) seen others with plenty of money yet a thin chain and cheap padlock round a 4*2

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

As for buying "Ecat parts" like free standing pistols grips & mags etc only if you have an Ecat endorsement is another pointless suggestion. Those features work remarkably well on precision bolt action rifles among other platforms for a variety of shooting disciplines.

Why should those that choose to use such aesthetics on there firearms (because that is what they are at the end of the day...) suffer? And for what? It won't stop the crime that doesn't even exist as @Beavis has mentioned.

The designation itself is stupid, and achieves nothing.

+++++1 for tougher sentences for burglary where the crims are targeting firearms. We were targeted by crims last Xmas. Fortunately we were not away. They came 3 times in 24 hrs. After the first one which we came home and disturbed them in the act I knew they were after guns. We called cops told them the scoop.... the answer "are the crims on the scene ?" No. They done a runner ! Oh, well we'll send around a squad car some time ....it was the next day ! Crims turned again after 1 am that night for another go - scared them off, got pics with carefully placedtrailcams 😎. Next day cops show up for forensics- wearing gloves so no prints. Sorry about that. Cops leave. 30 min later crims are back - full black out like AOS. I chase them into the bush then jump in car and race up road to find their car and trap them in bush. Cops turn up this to me full Monty with Eagle & AOS ... 2 little shitheads still stuck in bush. AOS go in with dogs (best part of story !) & arrest them.... after the dogs have introduced themselves. Jump forward 9 mo - Case goes to court. One gets 100 hrs community service , the other gets 9mo home D. WTF!!???

That's fuckin insane. Surely after three goes the police dogs should just be fuckin left to eliminate any risk of reoffending.

100% agree that A-cat safes are a joke. I only have an A-cat rifle & have an E-cat safe and a separate Ammo/bolt safe.

Should be 5mm minimum to stop burglars and other opportunistic thieves having easy access to firearms. Of course anyone can get to them with the right tools but we should be making it as hard as reasonably possible.

you can have all the security you like but if the crims know guns are there they will get them, even a hidden strong room is not safe to the right crim

Originally Posted by Ricochet

100% agree that A-cat safes are a joke. I only have an A-cat rifle & have an E-cat safe and a separate Ammo/bolt safe.

Should be 5mm minimum to stop burglars and other opportunistic thieves having easy access to firearms. Of course anyone can get to them with the right tools but we should be making it as hard as reasonably possible.

Dont agree. NZ police have proven to be ok with breaking the law, reinterpreting the law, and just plain making shit up when it comes to firearms legislation. They dont need any more freedom.

Whether it be a car, electronic data, money, or firearms. given enough time and skill, it WILL be taken. Lets start punishing the pricks with a meaningful sentence.

Lots of good arguments for and against. Some security measures are well below par. Good security for your firearms and the cost of those precautions is something you should include in your decision when you buy your first firearm. It would be great if we could rely on the individuals to chose the appropriate standard of security for their particular set of circumstances. This is clearly not the case so the rule makers feel they need to step in and set minimum standards. This happens in many other industries. My security is chosen to keep every one safe but also to stop the crims from pinching my toys. I think the bar should be raised.
The Ecat Acat arguement is a tough one. I fail to see how a rifle with a pistol grip/flasher hider/bayonet lug is anymore dangerous than one without. Mag size makes a difference but really not a lot and its easy to get a bigger mag and someone who is well drilled could fire more rounds faster and with more effect than a muppet like me wit a big calacrity mag. I was thinking maybe calibre could be the tripping point but as Beavis said heaps of crime is committed with 22s and shot guns, not always semis. So are centrefire semi rifles with large capacity mags more dangerous than bolt actions with small mags. They can do more damage so yes they are more dangerous, in the wrong hands. But at close range a semi 12 Guage can do way more damage, so should they be Ecat as well??.
It seems I don't have the answer. Lawful ownership of firearms is a responsibility that most take seriously. Some don't and couldn't give a toss. If everyone took that responsibility seriously and everyone obeyed the law we wouldn't be having this discussion.
What I would like see happen is increased minimum security for Acat. Better initial vetting and maybe renewing more often. Alot can change in 10 years.
This would off course require more resources for the police for processing. I know this penalises lawful gun owners.
Maybe the answer is more resources for the police to sort gun crime. Better deterents for gun crime. More resources for mental health services and better collaboration between them and the police. There it is, the answer, I got there in the end.
Now I know someone is going to tell me why I am all wrong and I still haven't addressed the Acat Ecat issue.
sorry for the ramblings. Half way thru I had to go shoot a possum the dogs had treed and it takes me 10minutes to get the gun out the safe.

Fact is, A-category security is only intended to defeat opportunistic thieves and prevent children accessing firearms.
A little bit of discretion regarding shooting pursuits is probably far more effective than the gauge steel that your gun cabinet is made from.

Originally Posted by Jexla

What's the bet people opting to increase security requirements are the ones that live in their own homes.

I'm a student with endorsements and I have to rent. Do you know how hard it is for me to get a rental, especially with the security requirements required for my endorsements? (and I have a bloody cat!)

Yeah... I'm the one that brought this up because of my recent change of address. I'm a student in a rental and convinced my property manager/landlord to let me install my pistol safe (20mm holes in newly carpeted floor). I also only currently use a single eye bolt with chain/padlocks/cables/trigger locks to secure my .22 and my Ar15. looking back on my $2 eye bolt security I thought to myself how abysmal it was for me to secure my firearms like that knowing that any criminal breaking in would likely have some basic hand tools or bolt cutter to get through it when they find it (2 bedroom home so not many places). The house is alarmed but that's not exactly going to stop a targeted attack from my blackpower neighbors who may or may not have seen me transfer a rifle bag to the boot of my car that i took every precaution to reverse as close to my door as possible.

Anyways I'm planning on transferring my firearms to a friend's house with better storage till I save for an Ecat safe when the police finally tell us what is allowed (recent debacle)... my pistol however... that's going to have to stay in there and hope whichever fucker breaks in doesn't have a decent grinder or 7 foot crowbar (it's Auckland so it will happen).

So no, not everyone who mentions tighter controls are the "ones with their own homes", and not everyone has the integrity to take a look at their security and say it isn't doing everything I can to secure MY firearms and protect OUR sport from crims/MPs/gun grabbers/media etc.

Oh and @Jexla I also have a cat...
His name is Kobie
Yes he has 3 legs

Originally Posted by MSL

Where can I buy some of these 'high tech' cutting discs? They sound good

Any engineering supplier.

Why even entertain the idea of having more restrictions on A cat semi auto's? On average, we have had what, three high profile incidents involving semi autos in as many decades?