Thread: Thermal Optics under scrutiny?

Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

If I were to buy a thermal, it would be to make the most of the very limited time I have to get into the hunting grounds, and maximize my opportunity to spot a deer, giving me the opportunity to shoot it. While hunting is always a pleasure, sometimes i actually would like to take home a deer. I'm not excellent at stalking, so I need all the help I can get!

This sums up my hunting, while I have more time I also have other demands on my time other than work. However I won't be buying one for now as that would mean working full time to pay for it, I would rather work less and save up which is what I'm trying to do.

Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

If I were to buy a thermal, it would be to make the most of the very limited time I have to get into the hunting grounds, and maximize my opportunity to spot a deer, giving me the opportunity to shoot it. While hunting is always a pleasure, sometimes i actually would like to take home a deer. I'm not excellent at stalking, so I need all the help I can get!

I missed this earlier. This is the kind of honesty I was after in asking the 1080/pest questions.

I understand your position and have no real problem with it.

hell Id take you for a hunt any day. My overall worry is that hunters get too accustomed too using thermal. Right now thats no problem. But if the situation changes and we dont need it as a kill maximiser. Who would volunteer to give it up?

Originally Posted by whanahuia

I missed this earlier. This is the kind of honesty I was after in asking the 1080/pest questions.

I understand your position and have no real problem with it.

hell Id take you for a hunt any day. My overall worry is that hunters get too accustomed too using thermal. Right now thats no problem. But if the situation changes and we dont need it as a kill maximiser. Who would volunteer to give it up?

You know the funny part about this???? When guys are out in open targeting deer,the deer take to the bush...like they did to avoid airborne meathawks. The tahr learnt to dive into caves and deer in open learnt to lay down in any cover...and taught it to next generation. We will not whipe the herds out. Been tried for years.yes this could well thing them out BUT the lazy hunters will still be lazy. We have a whole heap of younguns whos idea of hunting is out window of ute on private land with spotlight or thermal...or shoot close to truck in daylight,often not even retrieving animal... They have zero interest in doing the hard yards to get animal in the bush and carry it out to eat..why bother when can buy KFC or Burger King??? We grew up through hard financial Times so our whole mindset to game animal meat is different. Along similar slippery slope lines. How many photos get published of stags shot in velvet??? Yet even ten years ago that was frowned upon. NZDA used to very much disapprove of shooting stag in velvet. Now that in many places numbers are high ,it's become more normal to do so...not my cuppa tea.

Re ducks...if stick to limits AND UTILIZE them...what difference does it make how they shot?? None so water swatting isn't bad lol if you want your limit of seven for one shot.so be it.your day is over.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Re ducks...if stick to limits AND UTILIZE them...what difference does it make how they shot?? None so water swatting isn't bad lol if you want your limit of seven for one shot.so be it.your day is over.

Kind of my point Micky. Limits are designed knowing not everyone will achieve them often. If you make it easy to get the limit, the limit might be 2 per day.

Wil hunters be happy and accept that?

Blinds under 600mm above ground were not allowed, mechanised decoys is another that shows some potential to harm populations. But we have sen the push back if mention of those being removed is brought up.

But regions are different...same as deer,very very few places around here have issues with deer. Quite a few have hundreds of not thousands of ducks... If limits are enforced and people behave it can work. No different to fish numbers n limits. Catch n release has been proven to be double edged sword. Here in central South island I allowed to shoot 50 mallards a day,hundy for weekend. Thirty odd is best we have managed and that doesn't change if two people or four are there,we still don't shoot over fourty for weekend. Deer I shoot one dress it out and go home.very seldom shoot two at once.

Whats your point? how does it relate too what Im saying?

One part of what Im saying is that in the regions where duck population has suffered from a collapse, the goal is no longer to maximise kill rate. But that when pushed, hunters did not want the toys that helped maximise kill rate taken away. Despite thier ability to use such having been a relatively short term event.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Whats your point? how does it relate too what Im saying?

One part of what Im saying is that in the regions where duck population has suffered from a collapse, the goal is no longer to maximise kill rate. But that when pushed, hunters did not want the toys that helped maximise kill rate taken away. Despite thier ability to use such having been a relatively short term event.

My point is this. If properly managed it doesn't matter what you use to kill your bag limit.once it's reached its reached. We have far too many ducks n geese down here in places. Up north not so much. So we have bugger bag limits. Bruce n Brian shoot lots of deer and give meat away ,flyblow. Shots to waste after filling freezer...down here I put every bit of venison I shoot in freezer,I have no surplus.. taking toys away is irrelevant.your bag limit is your limit.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

My point is this. If properly managed it doesn't matter what you use to kill your bag limit.once it's reached its reached. We have far too many ducks n geese down here in places. Up north not so much. So we have bugger bag limits. Bruce n Brian shoot lots of deer and give meat away ,flyblow. Shots to waste after filling freezer...down here I put every bit of venison I shoot in freezer,I have no surplus.. taking toys away is irrelevant.your bag limit is your limit.

You are not listening. I have no other response than that. Go back and understand what i have written. If you dont get my point Im happy to answer specific questions.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

You are not listening. I have no other response than that. Go back and understand what i have written. If you dont get my point Im happy to answer specific questions.

No I don't get your point...you brought up ducks.... You brought up the worry when population got low folks don't want to comply... Thermal devices for SPOTTING game could actually help stags survive.... Cause I normally shoot first deer I see. IF I had stag over here but hind over there....I then have choice to go target the breeding unit. As it is I very seldom shoot stags in velvet..done it couple of times n don't like it at all. Besides,hinds n yearlings much easier to carry.

Both Bruce, Brian and flyblown "hunt"in areas where forestry or inaccessible doc land have allowed numbers to balloon and spill out into the surrounding area. Ben waiamata is in the same boat. Population density, geography, ownership and access are a part of the equation. Private land isn't part of his argument, or if it is it shouldn't be.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Both Bruce, Brian and flyblown "hunt"in areas where forestry or inaccessible doc land have allowed numbers to balloon and spill out into the surrounding area. Ben waiamata is in the same boat. Population density, geography, ownership and access are a part of the equation. Private land isn't part of his argument, or if it is it shouldn't be.

The Canada geese numbers got out of hand when access was denied. We have so many mallards because of all the dairy farm irrigation ponds..so it's similar. Locked up ates = nursery

The example of ducks and semi autos is relevant, but maybe not as intended.
Some areas did have crashed populations but I believe that was more due to land use changes than semi auto shotguns. The situation has to be viewed in its entirety, not just through the lens you wish to examine.

Deer are the same. We all hunt for different reasons. I live on venison and gamebirds - probably 10% or less of my meat is bought. Notwithstanding that, I think of hunting as worshipping in the outdoor church - it is good for my soul. I don't trophy hunt - after 40+ years of hunting I have a single set of tusks, and a antler I found in a creek on a special day. I'm thinking about a thermal, but in no rush to buy, and to answer a previous question, I prefer hinds and yearlings, but I'll happily shoot a stag if that's what is on offer.

Who (anybody) are you to dictate what is right for me?

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

The example of ducks and semi autos is relevant, but maybe not as intended.
Some areas did have crashed populations but I believe that was more due to land use changes than semi auto shotguns. The situation has to be viewed in its entirety, not just through the lens you wish to examine.

Deer are the same. We all hunt for different reasons. I live on venison and gamebirds - probably 10% or less of my meat is bought. Notwithstanding that, I think of hunting as worshipping in the outdoor church - it is good for my soul. I don't trophy hunt - after 40+ years of hunting I have a single set of tusks, and a antler I found in a creek on a special day. I'm thinking about a thermal, but in no rush to buy, and to answer a previous question, I prefer hinds and yearlings, but I'll happily shoot a stag if that's what is on offer.

Who (anybody) are you to dictate what is right for me?

I didnt say any of the things I mentioned were the cause of the collapse. I said when it came time to limit easier killing in the face of collapse, there was resistance.

Im also not talking about whats right for you. Im not heading down to the individual level. But thats part of my point. You all are proving my point.

Its got nothing to do with pest control, animal management, any other factor that we see used as excuses so often. Its about what each of you wants.

Ferk, this is getting more like Facebook everyday