Thread: Thermal Optics under scrutiny?

Originally Posted by Bucko

I recently took borrowed a friend's monocular to hunt on the public land. Aside from the safety and ethics debate, I found the act of looking through a little electric screen horrible compared with the meditative hours you can spend behind glass. Binoculars connect you more intimately with the landscape; the thermal separates you from the landscape.

Also, I didn't see any animals.

Yep there an aspect of "disconnect" about thermals v binos, the difference is spending hours looking through binos to see nothing & 5 minutes through a thermal to see nothing and knowing it's time to move on.

Or as i found out as a new thermal handheld owner, seeing deer through the thermal and not being able to find them through the binos even when i knew exactly where to look!

I suspect your opinion would change had you spotted one through the thermal.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

But its not used to target deer. So if the reason for allowing thermal use is deer are a pest, then should the 1080 rules be changed?

If you believe it hasn't been used to target deer you need to look a bit harder. It has been. This is just another "balancing act" in the constant juggle of animal numbers,human wants for sport,recreation and food Vs what's deemed best for the land and vegetation. Tahr is onto it. If it's legal it's legal,entirely up to you if you use it or not.

Originally Posted by Quicknock

I want to use a thermal because I'm a shit hunter who hasn't shot a deer in his last 5 outings. They are great for giving you a direction to point your binos and give you an idea if it is worth moving on from a spot.
The freezer is empty all too often and I enjoy playing around making small goods and sharing them with friends family and workmates.
I can't afford one yet but when I can I'll get one and use it every time I really want to get something to butcher.

So you would say Its not about pest control, you want to use a thermal because it makes it easier.

any of you others agree with that?

Currently does using a thermal do any harm to hunting?

Originally Posted by whanahuia

I want people to give the real reason they want to use thermals.

Because it's plurry easy to find animals on a scrubby hillside or in tussock country using one. Saves a shit load of leg work. But until finances allow it won't be a tool in my box of tricks.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

If you believe it hasn't been used to target deer you need to look a bit harder. It has been. This is just another "balancing act" in the constant juggle of animal numbers,human wants for sport,recreation and food Vs what's deemed best for the land and vegetation. Tahr is onto it. If it's legal it's legal,entirely up to you if you use it or not.

That misses the point. Its not legal to target deer or other large mammals with it. You can beleive its been used in that way, sure. But if you beleive our game animals are pests, do you want to see the illegality removed so they can be directly targeted with, say, Higher dose and more attractive to deer, baits?

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Because it's plurry easy to find animals on a scrubby hillside or in tussock country using one. Saves a shit load of leg work. But until finances allow it won't be a tool in my box of tricks.

Thank you micky. So its not because they are a pest?

As to harm .... It's similar,actually very similar to spotlighting. Makes it easier to find an animal..but just like spotlight or indeed a helicopter,animals learn to hide.in last two years my favourite bush hunting spot has changed,animals stay deeper in the bush MOST of the time. But I'm still able to tip one over if try hard enough.its still shit loads easier than during the late 80s early 90s.had add up last night.3 pigs,5 chammy and 33 deer have come to my freezer in last 30 years of hunting it.

No not a pest a resource that needs managed.now wallabies different story. Lots of fun but if not kept at them they just keep making more little hoppers

My mate has thermal. Hard core pighunter in open country.first thing in morning will be spotting hillsides in the dark from truck for pigs... Cocky wants numbers kept down so it's a tool to help do that. A deer within driving distance gets shot too.he won't shoot one if can't drive to it!!!! But if he doesn't keep on top of numbers,someone else will get in the gate and he be hunting groundless. Balancing act.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

That misses the point. Its not legal to target deer or other large mammals with it. You can beleive its been used in that way, sure. But if you beleive our game animals are pests, do you want to see the illegality removed so they can be directly targeted with, say, Higher dose and more attractive to deer, baits?

Greenstone valley in????60s,70s got done. Stewart island was done,hand applied to broadleaf in 90s. I hate the stuff,it's indiscriminate and fucking terrible way to die,dogs extremely vulnerable to it... So to stop the need for poison we SHOULD be able to use safe legal means of control.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

So you would say Its not about pest control, you want to use a thermal because it makes it easier. Inadvertently pest control by DOC's definition is taking place any time someone shoots a wild deer, pig, possum, goat etc.

any of you others agree with that?

Currently does using a thermal do any harm to hunting? What harm are you suggesting it does? Allowing the use of thermals may increase the number of animals taken> But if the decent hunters here are to be believed there are too many animals around now and if we as hunters don't drop the "pest" numbers professionals will be paid to cull or poison them

If you know someone near Wellington requiring some pest control that is willing to sponsor me a thermal, let me know

Originally Posted by Quicknock

If you know someone near Wellington requiring some pest control that is willing to sponsor me a thermal, let me know

[QUOTE]Inadvertently pest control by DOC's definition is taking place any time someone shoots a wild deer, pig, possum, goat etc.
/QUOTE]

Do we as a group wish to agree with docs definition of pest for the sake of thermal? Or is it better to agree with the Game animal councils opinion?

[QUOTE]What harm are you suggesting it does? Allowing the use of thermals may increase the number of animals taken> But if the decent hunters here are to be believed there are too many animals around now and if we as hunters don't drop the "pest" numbers professionals will be paid to cull or poison them/QUOTE]

See its about excuses.

Id wager that very few hunters who contributes too this thread heads out hunting, saying, I must shoot hinds instead of stags this roar.

Look Im not wholly against thermals. They are a tool that has potential to be used for game animal management and true pest control. But the harm is that as soon as these threads come out, the excuses that undermine hunter efforts to create game management get used.
And what happens when acceptable control is achieved? will any one of you go, Ok enough now? No you will go " Its harder to find an animal now so I need the tool more!

This is my point. There is very little in the way of self analysis and control or conversation about how this tool should be used and how the avoidance of misuse could be achieved.

Heres a parallel example. For most of the time from 1900 too 1990 ish, it was banned to use more than 2 shots for ducks or feed ponds. Duck numbers increased and regulations were relaxed to make hunter harvest more effective to achieve management goals. Then the duck population in some areas collapsed. But the efforts to convince hunters to give up those easier conditions has proved hard. Guess what word was very often used........."pest."

I almost always target hinds or yearlings, they're tastier

If I were to buy a thermal, it would be to make the most of the very limited time I have to get into the hunting grounds, and maximize my opportunity to spot a deer, giving me the opportunity to shoot it. While hunting is always a pleasure, sometimes i actually would like to take home a deer. I'm not excellent at stalking, so I need all the help I can get!

Re ducks...if stick to limits AND UTILIZE them...what difference does it make how they shot?? None so water swatting isn't bad lol if you want your limit of seven for one shot.so be it.your day is over.