Thread: Trampers 'frightened' by unspecified proximity of hunters.

Originally Posted by kidmac42

Fucken walkers think and behave like they have more rights over others all the time. I've seen it on a number of occasions and loathe it when I see them turn up where they shouldn't. Even at the bitey end of a rifle range! And then proceed to bollock me for shooting a gun! On a range! Fuck the city dwelling, latte lickin fucks!

Feelin the love!

Haha doc can't win, don't use poison, there must be a better way. Hunting isn't good enough, use poison

Sent from my workbench

I think we have to admit that the sound if a 223 or larger is a big noise if it's close and you're not expecting it or have no idea when it came from

Sent from my workbench

They won't be trampers at Mt Nimrod anyway, just picnickers!

I have a few of Pickering's books, he's a seasoned tramper/walker. Got me puzzled on this one though. Have met the DOC guy too and he was definitely pro hunting.

This article kind of rubs me up the wrong way.... and not for how people usually go with "trampers overreacting" yada yada....
But Mark Pickering is an incredibly seasoned outdoorsman with extensive outdoor knowledge. This article kinda makes him sound like a whiner, yet only quotes him in a small context. Which to me, having read and own quite a few of his books, makes no sense? It's not like he's some city slicker who just wandered onto the track - he basically lives in the bush.
And given that the article is (as per usual on "stuff") - vague... dunno. Perhaps the hunters in the area really were too close or doing something that was, justifiably, intimidating. Perhaps his quotes are far out of context for sensationalising since "hunting" is the topic of talk at the moment ... This article seems off for me.
But yea, so long as they are being safe and following the arms code - all good. However yes it is wise to report or seek information if certain areas appear unsafe for certain hunters aren't (actually and noticeably) following the rules. Whenever I am in an area where both trampers and hunters can be in same place I do remember that teacher outside her hut, and like everyone else reads how many times hunters still mis-identify targets or fail to check a clear firing zone. Awareness is still for being better safe, than sorry.

Given the guy has written 24 books then agree that is a piss poor performance on his part. Media often blow events out of proportion. Think this guy has shown his true colours

I can understand the other trampers point of view. You would not expect to hear a gunshot in the meat department of the local supermarket so why on a DoC reserve with signs notifying activities. Self righteous twats with their head stuck in the sand hoping the world goes by in perfect harmony

Aly - email or phone the guy and ask what his issue is then enlighten us

Exactly Tussock. Too many folks in the cities don't have enough 'real' things to do and so rely on the media for their experiences, which they take on as their own experiences. The media love 'news' and the more sensational they can make it the better. The result is that the city hermits who's only pseudo experience with anything is the over hyped negative rubbish from the media. This makes them even more paranoid so they become even more of a hermit.

There is nothing like getting into the real world for real experiences and to put the rest of the rubbish into perspective.

A lot of the issues come from man's adaptation to living in large populations. We used to seldom meet other groups and would judge there intents. In large populations like today there are too many encounters so we avoid eye contact. We lose the ability to judge intentions.

Our health and safety systems have a fair bit to do with things too. We have really moved away from risk management to trying for total risk elimination.

The irony is that now even teachers realise the danger of confrontation avoidance and risk elimination in our physical and social development from children. H&S are only implementing those failed policies of the NZ education system. Not only that but they are decades late and regulating for the weakest members might be cloaked as a caring community, but its not. Real care is helping to achieve, not helping to avoid.

Can we just ignore these people though? In a minority do we have that luxury? Emotion might gain headlines, but it doesn't sustain change in the absence of rational thought. (Usually)

Shouldn't we be providing rational response to these sort of attitudes?

Originally Posted by Tussock

GOOD SHIT

I copied and pasted that onto my facebook.
'cause you said that better than I possibly could.

Originally Posted by Tussock

I have a huge dog, and yesterday it ran up to a kid, mistaking it for a kid it knew (its well socialised). It recognised its mistake early and turned to come back, but there was a great deal of mutual interest between the little boy and my puppy from about 5m. Puppy was friendly and anyone with half a clue could see it, including the little boy. Little boy was not neurotic and thought he might have found himself something worth investigating.

Then his mother came, wrapped her arms around him with eyes wide with terror, started muttering in his ear and the kids eyes went wide with terror, my dog went "these people are weird". This all happened pretty quick and he came the moment he was called. So a well behaved dog met a well behaved kid, everything went fine, then a mentally unstable woman came and filled the kids head with fear. When he next meets an un-socialised dog, that fear might get him bit. If he stood square and calm like he did instinctively, he would be fine.

Everyone gave me a filthy look, as if my dog not getting in any ones face and returning when called made me a criminal.

Why is everyone absolutely petrified of everything? Why can't a New Zealander talk about earthquakes without having a panic attack. Or meet a horse on a track without calling the council. Why can't New Zealanders read dogs any more? I stay out of the city and a dogs a dog. I don't have to worry about the people, because they are not fools. Its just a dog, your a human. Its not on your level.

When you live alone in a place where you don't speak the language and you don't know the culture, then you have to fall back on what you have in common as humans to feel out situations. If you want to know if the people you are with a going to rob you or help you, you have to feel them out. You have to be sensitive to the vibe in a room. Works with dogs too. Any farmer does it when he wants to know the state of his animals. You know if they are fretting. If you are facing a couple of officials and they are about to do you, they can't hide it. They can try, but they will give themselves away. You can feel if they are genuine, or if there is fear or worse behind there eyes.

So what if you take that sensitivity to peoples feelings or intent, and apply it to our own society? What is in people eyes? What do they project.

Fear mostly. Your average middle class suburbanite reeks of it. Anxious, hand ringing balls of terror. You can see their minds working, in the same way you can see the mind of someone trying to run you working. Its just fear. Fear of what the person thinks of you. Fear of the unknown.

I was a scout. I was taught by a policeman, a cook, a foundry worker, a mechanic and an electrician. Not one of them was a pervert. They were excellent leaders and competent people willing to pass on their skills to children. I was discussing this with a mate of mine who was there with me and still works in the outdoors. We would like to in turn pass on our skills. Except, as he said, as a man, he does not even go near schools or playgroups. If we were both honest, we are petrified of neurotic disturbing people who would accuse us of being perverts. So our skills will not be passed on.

So which is the greater sickness? A few perverts which a decent organisational structure can exclude, or a society so riddled with fear that everyone sees everyone else as a pervert? The latter disturbs me far more. These people are sick.

Where is all this fear of absolutely everything coming from? I have been given advice by these people and it seems to go along the lines of "tick up everything, hide inside your house".

I think these people are all terrified of their own shadows and riddled with anxiety because they can't do anything for themselves. They live sanitised lives in ever contracting comfort zones. Its the anxiety that is the problem. We need to stop catering to it. Every time someone is too weak to function, we have to modify society to suit them. We just lower ourselves to the lowest common denominator.

If one person is to scared to cross a river in our society, we all have to pay for a bridge. Then we all have to use the bridge. Then no one knows how to accomplish a river crossing safely any more. Then the bridge gets washed away and everyone is stuffed.

In traditional society, you did not cater to the weakest people. You built your society for people who could cope with life, and if someone could not cope you helped them. You did not just stop doing something because someone suffered from anxiety. Its a disease that spreads. If I run a bush camp, and I have even one person who thinks like that author, I have to deal with it then and there, or by morning I have a camp full. Then things just go to pieces. Shackleton dealt with that issue by making his anxious crew member the cook. He gave the weakest most fearful member of his party the hardest job (outdoor blubber cook) and he came right. He needed a challenge to build him up.

These people live in contracting comfort zones. That guy might have been a solid joker once and a decent outdoorsmen, but now the world is too much for him. The common sense answer DOC gave is 100% something he could have worked out for himself (as others noted). ,So he is clearly not thinking straight. Its a symptom of anxiety. They get all worked up, and the story in their head becomes real to them. Then they go on attack. They are always the aggressor attacking phantoms. There is a reason animals drive off anxious fearful animals. Come back when you can think straight.

Run away fear is no good. If we were still in tribes we would not tolerate these people. They would get us all killed. You can't be jumping at your own shadow when dangers are real. That is reserved for soft, spoilt people. You won't see a bush African fret (unless superstition is involved). Fretting and being hysterical and over dramatic is a first world luxury. If you can't keep yourself together, a predator (human or animal) will sense it.

These fools are going to get us all killed. We can't have an entire country filled with neurotic hand ringing pirmadonnas. Its not a functional survival strategy. What happens if we hit hard times?

I'm expected to take these people into the bush. Its just a joke now. They want their six figure salary and status and position etc etc but they sure as hell don't want to earn it. The tents not big enough, there is no shower, where do I plug my hair drier in.

We need to really think hard if we want to let people terrified of their own shadow dictate terms for us. We are heavily outnumbered by the neurotic city people who need the world made safe for them. I am getting very, very sick of it.

I listened yesterday to all of this outdoor terror at a meeting I attended. I sat and listened to people talk about the danger of people getting lost because they missed the signs.

I don't really know how to explain this to you all (them). If you want to make everything earthy and bush wholesome and one with nature, by all means paint everything green. But, if you expect people to see a green sign in the bush, you are a f*cking idiot. The forest service painted things orange for what should be obvious reasons.

We need two separate outdoors areas. One that is not the outdoors for people who can't cope with that, and one for people who still have a spine (us). I don't really want to be in the same space as these people.

At said meeting, hunters were blamed for everything. Anyone driving a 4x4 irresponsibly was a hunter. Personally, I think their tracks are irresponsible. Big destructive slip causing motorways covered in gravel. Whats wrong with a properly slashed cheap to maintain cullers track that is moulded into the terrain? That is a bush experience. I won't walk on the stinking motorways. It looks like a big ugly scar on the landscape to me, and reminds me a I live in a country of people too feeble to avoid a tree root.

We are not tramper shooting, hut wrecking child molesting, animal torturing monster. I'm the guy who stopped when your car broke down. I'm the guy with the 4x4 who saved you from a night out in the snow when you drove without checking the forecast. Everyone on this forum is that guy. And when there is an earthquake, that guy turns up and teaches you to camp, and are you not grateful? And when your techno-fabulous $5000 tramping kit does not navigate for you and you fall off that motorway, it will be a guy or girl in $100 worth of Stoney Creek gear with holes all through and legs like steel springs who walks all night and finds you.

Maybe the moral of the story is read the forum, not Stuff. Works for me. I want to hear what you lot have to say, as people capable of functioning in the world at large. Not a mentally unstable author.

Don't buy into that shit. They want to make us believe we are in some way socially irresponsible. Being completely useless is socially irresponsible.

Profound wirds


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Originally Posted by tiroatedson

Profound wirds


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Well presented and accurate too. I see it behaviour in a lot of people.

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all that claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think every thing you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told to want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you're alive. If you don't claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned


@Tussock. You're starting to sound a lot like Tyler Durden.

That's a compliment

Originally Posted by Tussock

I went back to the works and it had been made "safe" which means it had become a very cruel environment. When I started, if one of the weakest guys was copping it from a bully, there was a third kind of guy there. They broke bullies for sport and I am not going to lie, I was an enthusiastic participant. No one stood for that shit. If you wanted to dominate some poor fool, you made yourself a target. You want to play that game, then sweet. You can be some actual strong persons source of amusement for a while. It was not a good life choice. For me, coming from a school where bullies were protected by rules, coming to a place where there were no rules, it was a huge relief. If someone wanted to be a dick, chances are someone far worse would be willing to fight them, just to break up their day a bit.

Now its safe, the people are horrendous. The straight up friendly guys who can actually scrap, but are nice friendly genuine blokes are hamstrung. They have no role. When I started at 18, they were terrifying, but if you were respectful they did not let people harm you. The petty bullies have the run of the place inside the rules now. I saw people being treated the way they are bullied in an office. The kind of thing I go there to avoid. The kind of thing we left the rules open here to avoid. We need honest stable people to step up and set the tone, rather than outsource the responsibility to petty officious little conductors.

I am on a media blackout. That shit it filtered. You don't want it in your head. It will taint your thoughts. These people say what they say due to their afflictions. Deep anxiety that comes from thinking crime is news. Its older than population growth. Its original sin. Old hangovers from various organisations methods of keeping people in line. Fearful anxious people, while very very useless, are very very manageable. When society is full of strong independent free thinking people who are not harmstrung by fear, a power structure is very hard to maintain. Its the fear that makes people compliant.

When you are afraid, you have a very reliable and predictable mammalian response. Its been used by everyone from the Nazis to Cosmopolitan magazine to exploit people. Now no one talks to their neighbours. Instead, they peer over each others fence, petrified of what people on the other side think of their consumer purchases.

I bought into this a wee bit after I was injured. Its hard not to. Then I noticed I was just doing less and less. Nothing was safe or sensible enough to be viable. I realised in the old days, all I focussed on was increasing my ability to meet those challenges. I routinely bit off more than I could chew, and chewing it was the making of me. Granite was just a bit more than I could chew. No drama, back on the horse.

Now I am thinking about getting a horse. I'm petrified of them. Its not an animal that appeals to me, which makes it the only one. It seems like the options are put myself in an uncomfortable place, or become like these people.

We need to dig up and maintain the old ways. Not the things we used to get wrong, but the things we used to get right. Hunters are the last people clinging to their link with reality. You evolved for that task. If you don't have that link to what you were built for, then you are going to fret. You are going to feel out of place in the world. You are a square peg in a round hole. We know this, because we know what it feels like to find our own food, and we know it tastes better, because of the process.

We should not sell ourselves cheap. I see you guys as increasingly important. I'm a resource geo, and the tank is very very low. If we are to be responsible, we need the people who remember how.

The line "hunters are only interested in their resource" speaks volumes. At least some people understand resources. Because very soon, people will be learning about them the hard way.

I

Preach!