Thread: TV3 & Guncity mistake

Originally Posted by Koshogi

It's surprising that you are upset at the NZ Police over this, but not the many other unlawful "procedures" that they have enacted.

*NB: Only a “Police Form” from a Police email address, or the original, certified by the Police District Arms Officer and mailed direct to the seller, will satisfy the Arms Act requirement for the seller to take reasonable steps to ascertain whether you are a holder of a firearms licence, or in the case of an airgun, are of or over the age of 18 years.

First thing, the NZ Police DO NOT have the authority to require you to use ANY specific form. The law only requires a "written order", and does not empower the police to set the format of the form, unlike other sections of the Act.

Arms Act 1983- 43A Mail order sale of firearm or ammunition

(1) Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 who sells by mail order a firearm or any ammunition for a firearm or restricted weapon otherwise than pursuant to a written order—
(a) signed by the purchaser; and
(b) bearing an endorsement signed by a member of the Police and stating that the member of the Police—
(i) has inspected the purchaser’s firearms licence; and
(ii) is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition.

Arms Act 1983 - 30A Application for endorsement in respect of military style semi-automatic firearm

(1) Any person, being of or over the age of 18 years and being an applicant for a firearms licence or the holder of a firearms licence, may apply at an Arms Office to a member of the Police for an endorsement permitting that person to have possession of a military style semi-automatic firearm.

(2) Every application under subsection (1) shall be made on a form provided by a member of the Police.



If the NZ Police wish to have a specific form to be used, then follow the process laid out by the Arms Act and have the Governor General make an Order in Council.
Arms Act 1983 - 74 Regulations
(1) The Governor-General may, from time to time, by Order in Council, make regulations for all or any of the following purposes:
(g) prescribing forms of applications, permits, licences, endorsements, registers, notices, and other documents required for the purposes of this Act, or authorising the Commissioner to prescribe or approve such forms, and requiring the use of such forms:

I would be more upset about the ultra vires "Police Requirements" that they have imposed upon citizens without adhering to the legislative process, despite repeatedly being told by the courts that they do not have this authority.

Such as:

Forward the form to the District Arms Officer for completion and transmission direct to the retailer

- The Arms Act states that "a member of the Police" may sign it and does not require or allow for any further appointment.

Each and every firearm / airgun / ammunition transaction will require Police verification. Verifications will be valid for seven (7) consecutive days from the date upon which they are approved / completed by Police.

- Where does this limitation exist in the Arms Act or Regulation?

The address for delivery of the items must be a physical address. In the case of firearms or ammunition, the address must be either the purchaser’s recorded and verified firearms security location address or the recorded and verified place of residence. i.e. the address values recorded by Police against the firearms licence number, which have been inspected by police. A licensed firearm dealer’s address is also acceptable.

- Where does this requirement exist in the Arms Act or Regulation?

The purchaser must be present at the address to receive the delivery, or the goods are to be held at the premises of the mail /courier company which is making the delivery. Sellers are to give this instruction to the mail / courier company which they engage for the delivery.

- Where does this requirement exist in the Arms Act or Regulation?

Purchase restricted airguns
People who do not hold a firearms licence who wish to purchase a restricted airgun from a licensed firearms dealer are required by Police to establish their bona fide membership of a NZ Police recognised airgun sport club. Proof of age must be established by a current NZ drivers licence or a current NZ passport. Club bona fides is established by providing to Police the original of a letter of good standing from the club which is dated within 14 days of the day of application to Police.

- Where does this requirement exist in the Arms Act or Regulation?


This is supposed to be a nation of laws and any new laws must follow the legislative process that we have agreed to be governed by. Not by the arbitrary decision of an unelected official.

The legislative process

The law is the framework within which citizens consent to be governed, having elected their law-makers.

Parliament legislates by examining bills (proposed laws), making amendments to them, and agreeing their final form. The bills then become Acts of Parliament.

No good talking to me about this, our AO does his own thing and works on the basis of "don't cross me!" Maybe you should be talking to the Minister of Police?

Originally Posted by Maca49

No good talking to me about this, our AO does his own thing and works on the basis of "don't cross me!" Maybe you should be talking to the Minister of Police?

Maca, it is up to you to take your AO to task if he tries to make his own rules! Politely tell him that his requirements or interpretations are not lawful next time he tries something on. If he uses that as an excuse to take some action, or refuse you something you are legally entitled to, then he is a gone-burger. You immediately inform your lawyer with all the details and then go straight to the top at Police National HQ. If that does not produce instant results then you have two legal recourses; an appeal under Section 62 of the Arms Act, or a Judicial Review of the Police actions. Although there will be some expense involved, publicise your actions on this forum and most caring members will stump up a few dollars to help out. I have been personally involved in several of these actions over the years and enjoyed a very high success rate. I can state that I now do not have any problems with the Police (from PNHQ down to station level) when I make any requests under the Arms Act.

Remeber the following when making requests under the Arms Act;

1 The Police are Public Servants charged with the administration of the Arms Act.
2 You are a law-abiding licensed firearms owner making a legitimate request as required by law.
3 You cannot be refused any permit, etc. unless the Police have justifiable grounds to refuse you.
4 Those justifiable grounds are not at the whim of any one Police Officer.
5 Every contrary decision you get can be lawfully challenged.
6 ALWAYS get any contrary decision in writing and signed by a Commissioned Officer.
7 You are entitled to such written decisions, and on a timely basis.
8 If they refuse to give a written answer then their original decision has no legal validity.
9 NEVER raise your voice or use abusive or threatening language, merely ask which part of the Arms Act is the basis for their decision.
10 Police policy is NOT law.
11 Familiarise your self with the 1983 Arms Act, the 1992 Arms Amendment Act, and the Arms Regulations, all available free online.
12 Most AO's are civilian menbers of the Police and have very limited powers.

I've thought about this for a while. I know of some things this guy has done dating back to the 80s but he, for some reason wears Teflon.
I'll think some more

Thanks very much for that advice Gundoc. Filed for future reference.

Good summaries Gundoc and Koshogi...

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Last time I used fastway it was 75 dollars.

It cost me $25 and that includes me buying packaging material and paper to wrap it. Once wrapped it usually fits under an Aqua label (courier version of a stamp. Up to 5kg nationwide.) which is $160 ish for a book of 10 from memory. $75 is too steep and an absolute rip off.

yep cost me $22 last time

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

yep cost me $22 last time

Did you tell them it was a firearm?

How is the cops prosecution coming along anybody heard?

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Did you tell them it was a firearm?

Last one I did was $25 and yes it was declared as a bangstick

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Did you tell them it was a firearm?

yes, even had the bolt in a separate box which they normally send separately. This time they just taped it to the main box

Interesting, I didn't mention it and it was 20-30 bucks but they asked if it was a firearm to which I replied yes then it was automatically 75 dollars standard charge for firearms, it would appear it is different by depot.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Interesting, I didn't mention it and it was 20-30 bucks but they asked if it was a firearm to which I replied yes then it was automatically 75 dollars standard charge for firearms, it would appear it is different by depot.

You got reamed good and proper then. Bastards

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

How is the cops prosecution coming along anybody heard?

Vindicates as all if they don't prosecute her! We can be the police as well

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Interesting, I didn't mention it and it was 20-30 bucks but they asked if it was a firearm to which I replied yes then it was automatically 75 dollars standard charge for firearms, it would appear it is different by depot.

They're franchises so each place has their own pricing, I got quoted $50 for a .22 I wanted to send and was like wtf, make it $20, then she goes, "oh we'd lose money on it if we done that" walked my ass out went and saw my old boss and shipped it via fastway (2 doors down from the depot) for $12.