Thread: TV3 & Guncity mistake

Originally Posted by Josh

I have a solution to this that I imagine is pretty unpopular - I don't see the issue as being a sales issue, but a shipping one. Shipping firearms to private addresses, specifically.

Easy solution, scrap the police order form entirely, instead of heading to the police station to fill out the form, you head to the police station to show them your license and pick up your firearm, which was shipped there by the seller... would take up a slight amount of police time but would be pretty foolproof.

I think that is a good idea though the cops would need some more funding for their FAL processing staff as they are behind the 8-ball at the moment

Heather du Plessis-Allan under police investigation

"My understanding is one member of their team does have a firearms licence, and is licensed for Category E (semi-autos) and Category B (pistols)"

*ahem* anyone on the forum?

Oh so they are now going to be fit and proper to continue with these licences?

I'm very conscious of a "witch hunt" occurring - but shouldn't the person whom we only see their hands (oldish man) have their FAL at least suspended as a criminal investigation is now taking place? What part have they played in the supply of a firearm to an unlicensed person?

Quote from Police blurb to media - Police is also updating the online/mail order firearms purchasing process, so that those buying guns in this way from now on will be required to physically visit a Police station and present their license to a Police arms officer before any purchase is approved. (Cool, we have to do this now) If approved, the documentation will then be passed onto the dealer directly by Police. (This could be trickier - due to cost cutting at a dept level within the Police)

But, a good workaround for the time being. I am surprised that there is not already access for dealers to the FAL database that Police hold. As someone posted earlier - that way the dealer could see (a) that the FAL is valid, and (b) the FAL holder is still cleared to hold and exercise the rights bestowed upon a FAL holder. With this being 2015, there has to be a secure electronic way to tidy this up - its not rocket science. It would certainly beat the old paper based book method that dealers use now.

As a side note - if Police want to get a grip of who has what weapons, the log book that dealers use now to record the FAL holders details, as well as the weapon they have purchased, could be digitised (easy..) as above if the dealers had access to aforementioned FAL database...

That log book is completly useless as there is no requirement for us to record who we sell to just sight a license.

This is all a huge witch hunt and seems to be jacked up by the Police. How come this has just been done at the same time that Greg O'Connor is wanting firearms access tightened up and the Police have just been looking into it. "Someone" will have told the reporters what to do and how to do it.
How is the Police workaround any different to what is suppose to be happening? every time I have bought a firearm this way I have had to take the form in to the Police and presented my firearms licence. The only difference is the Police sending the form on. Where in the Arms Act does it say the Police have to send the form on?

What about doing what the u.s does if there has to be change.... Don't they basicly just send things to the arms officer closest to you then you go in show them who you are, pick up your stuff and leave.
Wouldn't have to worry about firearm related stuff being dropped at your door when not home, and you have to go in to get your form signed anyway.

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Actually nah, not quite.
I don't know how they check, but they DO check you have a legit FAL. They refused to provide me the details on how they check.
I used to enter a false number that looked right (due to sharing of information etc) and they nailed me - wouldn't let me bid/question/sell anything firearm related until I provided them with a scanned copy of my license.

You're missing the point, every time you follow the right formula, you can bid or ask a question. Yeah they might email after awhile and ask why you keep using different numbers, but you could have bought firearms well before the send an email.

Wow, I just got a personalised letter (as I am sure others will as well) from TradeMe. Usually I like getting letters.....

Hi,

We're getting in touch with members who have been active in a firearms category on Trade Me in the past few months. The online sale of firearms has become a hot topic this week, so we thought it would be helpful to send through a reminder about the ins and outs of how guns are bought and sold onsite.

We've put together a blog post which sets out the rules in detail and we also have some information on our banned and restricted list too.

We understand NZ Police are reviewing the law and guidelines around the sale of firearms online. This means the process for buying and selling selected firearms on Trade Me may change in the future. We will keep you updated with the implications of any changes for members.

If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch with us.

Regards,

The Trust & Safety team
Trust & Safety Blog | Trade Me

Originally Posted by bully

What about doing what the u.s does if there has to be change.... Don't they basicly just send things to the arms officer closest to you then you go in show them who you are, pick up your stuff and leave.
Wouldn't have to worry about firearm related stuff being dropped at your door when not home, and you have to go in to get your form signed anyway.

Not everyone works near a police station, nor at hours that are convenient to just pop in and out at will. I think we should concentrate on enforcing the laws that we already have (which seem to working more or less), rather than making more laws and hoops to jump through for people who already obey the law

In the U.S. they send to an FFL which is basically a gunshop, so no different from buying from Guncity or H&F.

Originally Posted by Jexla

You're missing the point, every time you follow the right formula, you can bid or ask a question. Yeah they might email after awhile and ask why you keep using different numbers, but you could have bought firearms well before the send an email.

Had a mate who made an error entering his number (accidentally reversed 2 of the numbers from the previous time he entered it)and TradeMe picked up on it immediately and banned him. I would say they look for differences between each time you enter your number. Although, there was a rumour a couple of years ago that TM were in possession of a full list of FA licence holders. Scary if that was the case but as I said a rumour.

Originally Posted by steven

It can be and is done by some on line. When I delt with Aoraki from the feedback I got I am pretty sure they had run my form past their local AO to get it/me verified as legit before they shipped me a boat load of 223, good on them.

On top of that it wouldnt be hard for a gunshop to buildup and hold a register (or get the police to supply it or have a restricted website) of known AOs / signers as a simple and quick cross check. Something as simple as Wellington AO = Mike Cole = AO666. Ditto putting in the FAL licence and getting back the owner's name on a website (but no address).

It isnt rocket science, its dead easy IT stuff that wouldnt cost much to implement like a few thousands of $s.

A few thousand dollars you reckon? What you're forgetting is the actual costs that government departments are charged for IT services.
This is something the would cost MILLIONS of dollars and would have an ongoing cost in order to keep up and would more than likely be down continuously.
Forgetting the costs of Nova pay? - regardless of the issues.

Originally Posted by Josh

I have a solution to this that I imagine is pretty unpopular - I don't see the issue as being a sales issue, but a shipping one. Shipping firearms to private addresses, specifically.

Easy solution, scrap the police order form entirely, instead of heading to the police station to fill out the form, you head to the police station to show them your license and pick up your firearm, which was shipped there by the seller... would take up a slight amount of police time but would be pretty foolproof.

Think about what you're saying, storing extra firearms at a police station that they then have to deal with, police budgets are stretched extremely thin as it is before having to deal with other people's firearms turning up and having to store them securely.

Originally Posted by Tommy

Not everyone works near a police station, nor at hours that are convenient to just pop in and out at will. I think we should concentrate on enforcing the laws that we already have (which seem to working more or less), rather than making more laws and hoops to jump through for people who already obey the law

I'm not for change either. Just if we had to. And yes it might be a chore to drive in there during business hours. But you have to anyway to get your form signed.
I was just throwing it out there.