Thread: Two Near Miss" safety incidents with the Sako 85 at a gong shoot

No ! The gun did not go off and miss !

I'm reporting these so others can think ahead for when they encounter these situations.

#1 Live rounds left in the mag. Bolt open when leaving the firing point.
Carry rifle with muzzle down so it's in a "safe direction".
ZIP - the bolt slides forward stripping a live round into the chamber as I walk away.

When hunting its no problem firing one or two shots. You just close the bolt on an empty chamber and move on.
On the range I normally fire off all shots in the mag then carry the rifle with open bolt. But this time @Gillie had required far too many shots in far too little time (for me) and I timed out so had two left.

Prevention: 1) Chamber flag or
2) visually check action, see rounds in mag, drop mag or work both through while pointing downrange.


#2 Six rounds to fire: 5 in the mag and 1 in the chamber.
For the Sako 85 the bolt head has to ride 1 - 2 cm over the base of the 5th round in the mag so it doesn't get fed causing a jam.
So you hand feed the 6th round into the chamber. But if the muzzle is down, the round drops straight into the chamber where it's hard to see and then the bolt zips down following it. Again, a live round in the chamber when you don't expect it.

This was an unfamilar manoeuvre which I tried to do for the first time under instruction, without having thought it through.

Prevention: 1) load 5 then stack the 6th round on top. It won't click into place or be engaged by the mag. Press the loose 6th round down 2mm into the mag with fingers of one hand while working the bolt with your other hand. The bolt face and extractor will pick up the rim in a semi-controlled feed and stop it falling into the chamber. It can also be withdrawn and ejected without fully closing and cycling the bolt. or
2) Don't use "5+1" when under pressure or
3) Apply safety before loading the 6th round.


These are both instances where familiarisation with your own weapon is the key to safety.

Fortunately, on this day the range officer was also very familiar with the quirks of the Sako 85, watching like a hawk, and I learnt in a relatively safe situation.
Thanks Gillie.

It's out there isn't it . Theoretically unintentional discharges could occur. Except for your diligence. All the time that's most important and from your post you are on to it .
Looks like your R O was also

Your loading it with the muzzle pointed at the ground?

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Originally Posted by Bagheera

#1 Live rounds left in the mag. Bolt open when leaving the firing point.

This is why as a RO I prefer people to keep shooting to finish the stage even after the time limit has ended. And yes, having the competitor demonstrate their rifle is safe and empty before they leave the firing point is an easy way to ensure this is not forgotten. We see more than a couple of competitors that get a little distracted by the time limits and the fun and sometimes the RO needs to just remind them to demonstrate their rifle is cleared.

This is not a criticism of yourself, when you had finished shooting and had a couple of rounds still in the mag you had your bolt open, firearm was pointed in a safe direction at all times, and when I pointed it out to you, you cleared you rifle safely and got on with enjoying the day. I apologise for not discussing it with you afterwards though - I was far too busy as is usual for one of these events.

Originally Posted by Bagheera

#2 Six rounds to fire: 5 in the mag and 1 in the chamber.

This is a competition technique that I would almost never expect to see in a hunting environment. If Malcolm and I want 6 in our sakos then we load 5 in the magazine, load the top round into the chamber with the bolt, drop the mag and top it off before putting it back in the rifle. At this stage you can open and bring the bolt back with the live round and the mag pressure will hold it in place. We can't do this with the field shoot rule of open bolt at the start of the time limit though. Normally I load 5 and have a spare round to throw in the action at some stage through the stage.

Again - muzzle awareness, practise, familiarity with your firearm and a little bit of planning in a stage go a long way here.

Awesome post of yours though, Bagheera - thanks very much!

The problem has no relevance to the Sako 85, and is common to most centrefire bolt actions. It is the responsibility of the owner/user to ensure total familiarity and safe handling technique with any rifle. When a shooting stage on the range is finished it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure the chamber is empty, bolt open and magazine removed or emptied before signalling that the rifle is safe. It is then the responsibility of the RO to check EACH rifle before declaring the range safe. Remember there are no such things as 'accidental' or 'unintentional' discharges. If a shot is fired other than intentionally then it is a 'negligent' discharge and should be dealt with appropriately.

At our range you are not allowed to load the mag until the flag is up and the "you may fire" command is given. When the "cease fire" command is given and the flag is lowered you are expected to eject and unload the mag so problam 1 shouldn't happen. Letting people walk around with a loaded gun (i.e. rounds in the mag) is a recipie for disaster.

I guess at these events we're building our experience of safe handling as well as accurate shooting techniques.

A lesson here is that the combination of
using muzzle down to achieve "Always point your firearm in a safe direction"
with an open bolt before or after shooting
and live rounds in the mag or action ...

Equals: potential for gravity to load your rifle when you're not ready to fire.

A Bolt action rifle loading itself ? You have to see it to believe it !


I wasn't sure whether these two possibilities were just Sako or if other designs might be similar.
Some designs like the SMLE are much safer in this regard.

At the BOP range we are told to hold the barrel (I hold the forestock cos my Kimber gets hot) and point the rifle up when going from the table to the racks. We have the chamber flag in before standing. Maybe it's to keep hands from triggers & bolts back with gravity.

Back at home (Hungary) on the range bolts can't be in rifles until you're in the shooting position. Mag empty, bolt out before you leave your position. Never had issues with semi autos cos the bloody government made it illegal. Haven't been to an official range here yet. Does all of them have their own rules?

We all have different training & experience in reguards to firearms safety , depends on who trained us & for what as well as the yrs we have been going it and the different firearms we have been exposed to .
Having said that , and because of that , the best thing is a vigilant RO & safety staff etc , it starts with briefing before the shoot , and on going vigilance on the part of the RO and also the other shooters etc , if they see a un-safe practice , best to stop early .
Simplest is to be completely unloaded & cleared by RO or apointed staff , which means complete unload , and showing it is clear & then closing action and firing aim shoot in safe direction .
RE , having the bolt completely out of the rifle , I am not keen on that one , mainly because , too get the bolt out on most bolt action rifles , you have to remove the cheek rest to have clearance to remove the bolt from the action , just a hassle .