Thread: Un safety habits taught at Gun City.

Originally Posted by jakesae101

I've never seen anyone point a gun at someones face at a clay shoot pretty sure you'd get told to feck off and don't come back at the clubs i shoot at the usual action open gun in a safe direction applies you don't have to stand directly in front of the barrel to check gunfit

Ive shot at 10? clubs throughout the country and it is a VERY common practice for gun fit.
Guy that fitted my Mrs gun was ex H&H and did the same.. the medals on his wall from last 50yrs back up his expertise..

Id like someone to explain how you fit a shotgun without doing it..??

Originally Posted by Neckshot

instead of filling this forum up with this waste of time bullshit.
.

Yip...

If I ever had to point a shotgun at someone helping me fit it, I would make VERY sure it is unloaded, and pretty sure the pointee would do the same

We are getting a bit far of the topic of someone having a firearm pointed at them when they have no idea if it is loaded or safe...

Context dear Liza

Originally Posted by Rushy

Ha ha ha ha you need more practice. You missed out the word "The" at the beginning of that sentence AzumitH.

Product of my edumacation.

And to others comparing shotgun fitment to being muzzle swept by randoms with a gun you haven't checked have gone a little off track.

Went in the Aucks branch Easter Saturday. Asked to see a Sako Forrester .308 that I saw in the used section. Sales guy tries to hand it over to me with the bolt closed. "Lift the bolt and open the action please" I ask. Blank look and hesitation from the dude before he eventually does as I ask.

You have to wonder where they get these people from.

.

I have found a very simple solution to this problem

I don't set foot in gun city

ok , so I am in chch for a few weeks , went into the guncity here , .... nice big shop friendly enough sales people ... BUT .....a youngish female sales clerk was showing a young guy a trap gun , ... and from behind the counter was aiming into the store (ie at me ) .... now I know its 99% chance its empty .... but I still thought of this forum straight away , ...she then preceded to walk to the far end with the unbroken shotty over her shoulder barrel pointing backwards (into the store again) ...she was also very loud with all her advice , ... and was almost on show .... I believe (imho) that good firearm management should be shown at all times , . good practice is to not point a loaded or unloaded weapon at anyone , ever ... even if some one is just testing eye relief or butt length .. etc ... surely there is a better way . im not delicate ... but gun shops should be 100% professional at all times ....

Originally Posted by Koshogi

Doesn't bother me in the slightest, because I will:
◇Treat it as if it is loaded.
◇Not point it at anything I'm not willing to destroy.
◇Keep my finger off the trigger until I'm ready to fire.
◇Confirm the condition of the firearm upon receiving it.

I understand your concerns, but if you follow the golden rules it is a non issue. I'm going to treat it as if it IS loaded even if it ISN'T.

It's not a non issue to a lot of people and it shouldn't be to you either. Even though it's not a legal requirement it is a common safety procedure to not accept a firearm from someone with the action closed. It's mentioned in the Arms code as a safety precaution as well. Now one would assume that people who work in a shop selling firearms would know better, even from the point of view of their own safety. How are they to know that the firearm they pick up from the rack is not loaded unless they check it?

From the Arms Code.

Rule 1. Treat every firearm as loaded.

. Do not take anyone's word that a firearm is unloaded. Check every firearm yourself. Only pass or accept a firearm that has the muzzle pointed in a safe direction; the action open; and is not loaded.

. If it someone else's, ask them to show you that it is unloaded.

Then when you accept the firearm, you check it again yourself, as you mentioned.

I think you might have misconstrued my statement.

I didn't say to not do it(it being; opening an action and showing clear prior to passing a firearm). I said it doesn't bother me and if you following the "golden rules" it's a non issue.

Yes it is in the Arms code. Yes it is probably common place in NZ, not in GC apparently though.

It is not standard practice in a military environment(AUS & CDN).

I have been handed or picked up a loaded firearm on numerous occasions. I did not have a choice in having them open the action first. I did not feel nervous or bothered. I followed the rules and handled the firearm safely.

If it IS an issue to you, and you wish to fully abide by the Arms Code, then by all means insist on the action be opened prior to you receiving the firearm.

One thing that DID bother me in the AUS Army was the policy that everybody points their rifles at everybody!

I'm not talking about in exercises when you have OPFOR role players.

I'm talking about in drill, on patrol, walking around the compound, freaking everywhere! Then they issue you with ammo and tell you not to point your rifle at anybody. The complacency of muzzle discipline has already been ingrained.

It's even in the pistol training manual

Originally Posted by Koshogi

I think you might have misconstrued my statement.

I didn't say to not do it(it being; opening an action and showing clear prior to passing a firearm). I said it doesn't bother me and if you following the "golden rules" it's a non issue.

Yes it is in the Arms code. Yes it is probably common place in NZ, not in GC apparently though.

It is not standard practice in a military environment(AUS & CDN).

I have been handed or picked up a loaded firearm on numerous occasions. I did not have a choice in having them open the action first. I did not feel nervous or bothered. I followed the rules and handled the firearm safely.

If it IS an issue to you, and you wish to fully abide by the Arms Code, then by all means insist on the action be opened prior to you receiving the firearm.

Do you know for a fact it's not standard practise in the aussie military? NZ usually copies everything Australia does and in the nzdf accepting a steyr without being shown its clear will end up in a run to the top of that big fuck off hill over there or up downs.
surely legislation involving the removal of trigger groups on displayed firearms is the only way to go?

OP, Are you implying the staff member would knowingly allow a customer to wave a loaded firearm around the shop whilst within arms reach?

My point was (and remains so) that it can still be unsafe to accept a firearm from someone who hasn't checked to see whether the action is clear. There is the chance that the firearm is loaded and the unsafe dickhead who hasn't checked it may even have his or her fat little digit wrapped around the trigger when they attempt to hand it to you. They don't have to have the firearm pointing at you to make it an unsafe thing to do as it could be accidentally discharged by said dickhead resulting in someone else being shot apart from the person they're handing the firearm to.

Therein lies the logic of my earlier reply to you that it's not a non issue and the reason why it's mentioned in the Arms code and taught by the Mountain Safety Council.

I was a D.A. range officer for three years and I can tell you had anyone accepted a firearm that hadn't been shown to be clear from another person then both individuals would be severely reprimanded. If I failed to do so then I would get my arse kicked even harder by the other shooters present.

You can never be too safe with firearms.

Yes, I know for a fact. I just discharged at the end of last year.

Originally Posted by Koshogi

Yes, I know for a fact. I just discharged at the end of last year.

Thats fuckd up then.