Thread: Un safety habits taught at Gun City.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

My point was (and remains so) that it can still be unsafe to accept a firearm from someone who hasn't checked to see whether the action is clear. There is the chance that the firearm is loaded and the unsafe dickhead who hasn't checked it may even have his or her fat little digit wrapped around the trigger when they attempt to hand it to you. They don't have to have the firearm pointing at you to make it an unsafe thing to do as it could be accidentally discharged by said dickhead resulting in someone else being shot apart from the person they're handing the firearm to.

Then they are not following the "golden rules' and so IT then becomes an issue. They probably shouldn't be anywhere near firearms though. Unfortunately, I don't think that example has much logic in it. You can play what if's all day if you want.

As I said, I'm not saying don't do it.

Originally Posted by v1025566

Thats fuckd up then.

It is your responsibility to clear it upon receiving it. Somebody must watch you do it.

We also take the barrel off every time we clear the F88(Steyr).

Originally Posted by Koshogi

Then they are not following the "golden rules' and so IT then becomes an issue. They probably shouldn't be anywhere near firearms though. Unfortunately, I don't think that example has much logic in it. You can play what if's all day if you want.

As I said, I'm not saying don't do it.

Firearm safety is all based on eliminating the "if's" not playing with them.

You cannot eliminate the "if s".

You control them, by following the golden rules.

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Originally Posted by Koshogi

Then they are not following the "golden rules' and so IT then becomes an issue. They probably shouldn't be anywhere near firearms though. Unfortunately, I don't think that example has much logic in it. You can play what if's all day if you want.

As I said, I'm not saying don't do it.

I think what hes getting at is that in the highly unlikely event that a display rifle makes it from its country of manufacture, through customs at that country, then through nz customs, then from the importer to the retailer then onto display with rounds in it, there would be a chance that the shop person handing the rifle to you could discharge the rifle. So applying ypur golden rules would be too late. Improbable yes impossible no.

Originally Posted by Koshogi

You cannot eliminate the "if s".

You control them, by following the golden rules.

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That's not entirely correct. However, I'm not going labour the point with you because it's obviously a waste of everybody's time; mine included.

What if he discharges it while clearing it?

Most negligent discharges in the Army are when people are clearing their weapons.

IF everyone follows THE(not mine) Golden Rules, it's not too late.

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Originally Posted by v1025566

So applying your golden rules would be too late. Improbable yes impossible no.

That's a damn good point.

Originally Posted by v1025566

Thats fuckd up then.

That cant have been INF surely! When I was enlisted back in the late 90's we had that stuffed drummed into us word for word at every opportunity. I find it very hard to believe that riflemen arent being taught rifle safety in the Australian Army. They were OHS crazy as well.

I reckon there isn't a soul on here who hasn't accidentally pointed a firearm at somebody. I've done it once or twice but the important thing is to swallow ones pride and try not to f#ckup in future.

I can safely say that I've never accidentally pointed a firearm at someone.

Originally Posted by Dead is better

That cant have been INF surely! When I was enlisted back in the late 90's we had that stuffed drummed into us word for word at every opportunity. I find it very hard to believe that riflemen arent being taught rifle safety in the Australian Army. They were OHS crazy as well.

Yes that was in Infantry.

I'm not saying that they did not teach firearm safety. I'm saying that muzzle discipline IS a flawed issue in the ADF. When marching with rifles (not slung) the rifle is carried horizontally, which is pointing at the person at your 11 O'clock when in formation. You are required to carry your weapon in this position around bases, the issue is dismissed because the rifles are "unloaded". People are constantly "muzzle flashing" each other, I feel due to this ingrained complacency. With the increased training with the USMC this is being improved upon, as the Marines were not impressed by this.

Once live ammo is issued it is then stressed to not muzzle flash anyone.

Originally Posted by Dangerous Dan

OP, Are you implying the staff member would knowingly allow a customer to wave a loaded firearm around the shop whilst within arms reach?

That MUST be a load of crap! So next topic please!!!!
Please... And if or next time u do see some idiot doing something dangerous; hit the dick head up and put him or her straight...Straight away.


Dan

Originally Posted by stumpy

ok , so I am in chch for a few weeks , went into the guncity here , .... nice big shop friendly enough sales people ... BUT .....a youngish female sales clerk was showing a young guy a trap gun , ... and from behind the counter was aiming into the store (ie at me ) .... now I know its 99% chance its empty .... but I still thought of this forum straight away , ...she then preceded to walk to the far end with the unbroken shotty over her shoulder barrel pointing backwards (into the store again) ...she was also very loud with all her advice , ... and was almost on show .... I believe (imho) that good firearm management should be shown at all times , . good practice is to not point a loaded or unloaded weapon at anyone , ever ... even if some one is just testing eye relief or butt length .. etc ... surely there is a better way . im not delicate ... but gun shops should be 100% professional at all times ....

@stumpy, that was likely to be Chloe Tipple, one of the daughters of the owner/founder David Tipple.

I agree on 100% (minimum) professionalism in shops. They are often dealing with newbies and should be reinforcing the basics with their actions. At Gunworks there is now a sign outside the door asking you to unpack your firearms and check them before entering; obviously come across too many that weren't.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

@stumpy, that was likely to be Chloe Tipple, one of the daughters of the owner/founder David Tipple.

I agree on 100% (minimum) professionalism in shops. They are often dealing with newbies and should be reinforcing the basics with their actions. At Gunworks there is now a sign outside the door asking you to unpack your firearms and check them before entering; obviously come across too many that weren't.

if it was Chloe ,shes an international trap shooter so should be well aware of safety protocols and i must say ive usually found her pretty switched on safety wise..I was in there recently to having a wee gaze on what is my next intended purchase.salesman was extremely adept with the safety precautions !00% so.in fact it struck me maybe someone has read the riot act to all the GC staff of recent times.