Thread: Why do hunters continue to be accidentally shot?

These are not "accidental" shootings, they are "unintentional". Calling them accidental makes them seem unavoidable. These are all preventable.

If you are going to argue about semantics to fit your world view you should try to be more precise. They are an intentional shooting in error with an accidental outcome. Accidents can be avoided, but not without the cost of the elimination of the activity.

Like it or not, there will always be a statistical error rate. Ever heard the saying "nobody's perfect?"

That is not to say that we shouldn't be trying to reduce the error rate and its catastrophic effects....

The biggest impediment to this issue in my opinion is the constant repetitive thoughtless mantra "he failed to identify his target"..... its a bit like saying "going faster is more dangerous" equally as useless...

The right question is "Why did he fail to successfully identify his target"?

Until we understand the reasons why he failed, we will not make progress at reducing these incidents... and the lock em up forever brigade are just sacrificing another victim as a selfish emotional response....

Originally Posted by Sidney

If you are going to argue about semantics to fit your world view you should try to be more precise. They are an intentional shooting in error with an accidental outcome. Accidents can be avoided, but not without the cost of the elimination of the activity.

Like it or not, there will always be a statistical error rate. Ever heard the saying "nobody's perfect?"

That is not to say that we shouldn't be trying to reduce the error rate and its catastrophic effects....

The biggest impediment to this issue in my opinion is the constant repetitive thoughtless mantra "he failed to identify his target"..... its a bit like saying "going faster is more dangerous" equally as useless...

The right question is "Why did he fail to successfully identify his target"?

Until we understand the reasons why he failed, we will not make progress at reducing these incidents... and the lock em up forever brigade are just sacrificing another victim as a selfish emotional response....

You quite right, they have failed to identify their target and the right question is ""Why did he /she fail to successfully identify his/her target"" Theres a easy answer, they have simply not seen enough of the target to confirm it 100 percent. Its as simple as that. Nearly in every case the shooter has seen part of his target that he swears was a deer.....ONLY PART of it. Their brains telling them its certainly a deer, but the fact is they seen a very small part and without waiting to confirm it seeing more of the target they go ahead and fire at something they have done prob many times before, and each time it was a deer.

What you have to remember is the facts...the facts are in nearly all the cases involving hunting shootings (apart from spotlight ones ) its nearly always a very experienced hunter, 45 and over, been hunting a min of ten years or more, these are the facts.
Its not new shooters/hunters, its not young idoits, its not drunken fools. Its experienced hunters which have done alot of hunting, shot lots of deer, and in the past they seen time an time again parts of deer that have always been a deer. Its very easy for these tpyes of guys to let their guard down and go , shit, theres a deer and bang without seeing the whole animal.
These are the facts, so somewhere there lies the answer in stopping senseless deaths. New laws arent the answer, edcuating is, but targeting everyone, not just the new hunters, but certainly the experenced ones as well

Its not that easy and its not the whole answer.... but it is the right question and it is not being dealt with adequately....

Originally Posted by ebf

You can be a "shooter" without ever hunting. Lots of people involved in shooting sport on target ranges that never hunt... This is a hunting issue. The only sector in the NZ shooting community where this type of thing happens regular like clockwork is amongst hunters.

It is not a Firearms Licencing issue, it is not a shooting issue... It is a HUNTING issue, and it needs to be addressed as such.

i was meaning when hunting you dont hear of target shooters shooting each other

Originally Posted by Sidney

Its not that easy and its not the whole answer.... but it is the right question and it is not being dealt with adequately....

Well in actual fact it is. what i wrote is the facts.....if every hunter actual didnt take a shot at a so called deer etc if they can only see a small part of it they be no deaths. Deer cant turn into humans , and if you see most of the animal to confirm the id 100 pcent you not going to have people shooting deër"" that all of a sudden turn into a humans.
Isnt that the facts? People are not shooting at movement or firing blind, as i said, they nearly always experienced hunters, older hunters that think they can see a deer, and they totally believe what they looking at is a deer. The problem is they can only see part of what the target it is, and the eyes and brain plays tricks on you .
Seeing a far bigger percentage of the deer and these shootings cant happen.....it is as simple as that

People who shoot other hunters are suffering from. Hero Fuckwit Syndrome.

Why do drivers continue to crash cars? Cos people are human and shit happens.

In my opinion:

No matter how perfect the world is or the world you personally live in, people make mistakes- that being said when you are issued a FAL and have sat the test you personally have agreed to the terms of that agreement. By breaking these rules the out come has the potential to be nothing short of a disaster.
In my opinion there are 3 main ways how some one can be shot:
1. Shooter not identifying target beyond all doubt
2. Bullet goes through target and carries on
3. Intentional shooting

Whilst I am sure that anyone that has or does mistakenly kill or hurt someone feels horrible but no matter the situation it was avoidable and that person or persons should be fairly and firmly dealt with.
No matter the size of and how hairy your balls are or how much or how little hunting you have done nor your age depicts the rules. The rules of having a FAL are the rules and anyone that does not comply with them simply should not have a FAL nor be should they have access to a firearm.

My 2 cents

In other countries you hunt with a tag, that states the age, sex and species you are allowed to shoot. While sounding oppressive to NZ hunters, it does force the hunter there to correctly identify what they are aiming at. The penalites can be financial, loss of firearms and even vehicle.

While I'm not suggesting this is a way forward, it may eventually come to something so direct in order to deal with this horrible situation.

Originally Posted by deer243

Well in actual fact it is. what i wrote is the facts.....if every hunter actual didnt take a shot at a so called deer etc if they can only see a small part of it they be no deaths. Deer cant turn into humans , and if you see most of the animal to confirm the id 100 pcent you not going to have people shooting deër"" that all of a sudden turn into a humans.
Isnt that the facts? People are not shooting at movement or firing blind, as i said, they nearly always experienced hunters, older hunters that think they can see a deer, and they totally believe what they looking at is a deer. The problem is they can only see part of what the target it is, and the eyes and brain plays tricks on you .
Seeing a far bigger percentage of the deer and these shootings cant happen.....it is as simple as that

No its not... some people think they are seeing the whole deer... and they are still wrong.
Secondally.... its often impossible to see all of the deer... and yet most people who shoot deer only seeing parts of deer are still actually correct....
Like I said its not that simple...

Some people have mushed up brains.. There eyes transmit an image of a person or part thereof.. And there shit house neglagent brain converts the image to a deer or part there of...
I have no feelings for people that shoot another in this situation other than that they should shoot themselves in remorse.

Like all the good looking ladies when ya drunk?

Some people have mushed up brains.. There eyes transmit an image of a person or part thereof.. And there shit house neglagent brain converts the image to a deer or part there of...
I have no feelings for people that shoot another in this situation other than that they should shoot themselves in remorse.

And you are the problem....Understanding why this happens is the key to reducing it happening... with your attitude we have no chance of learning how to reduce it...

Because the bullshit you write doesn't reflect the fact that we all are equally as susceptible to making mistakes. I wouldn't hunt with anyone that doesn't understand that, and seeks to mitigate that reality.

Sidney, agree with picking who you go shooting with, be it hunting or range, the F-wits are the ones on the range the consider an unloaded firearm can be pointed anywhere, and I like to be behind the guy with the rifle when hunting, give him first chance, but know Im not going to cop it in the back. Of course with time and a few trips you know the ones you can trust and ditch the dickheads, I have hunted with some great, safety aware guys, that I was happy to shoot independently in the same area, after making a plan.

Originally Posted by Sidney

And you are the problem....Understanding why this happens is the key to reducing it happening... with your attitude we have no chance of learning how to reduce it...

Because the bullshit you write doesn't reflect the fact that we all are equally as susceptible to making mistakes. I wouldn't hunt with anyone that doesn't understand that, and seeks to mitigate that reality.

Right on, and whilst the vast majority continue to maintain the attitude/culture of "it would never happen to me" it will continue to happen for whatever reasons/route causes.