Thread: Why frontline cops should be armed

Originally Posted by sako75

No cop should go to work for his/her shift and go home in a coffin - full stop
Our society is changing and so are the threats they are facing. Give them the tools they need to ensure they go home each day.

I'm sure @Maca49 would like to see them armed with black powder pistols and long rifles

I'm sure looking down the barrels of an express rifle would have the Sama affect, and the smoke would give you a chance to escape if you missed and smell better than some low life crim!

Originally Posted by Hunt4life

A fairly healthy debate, although bordering on personal attack which is disappointing among forum members I generally respect. My two cents, I simply don't trust NZ Police to 'get it right' enough for me to endorse routine arming. I am sympathetic to cops and also to people in our society who are fearful. I'm not. I also am so highly anti-American gun slinging culture, that I'll fight against my precious country following their lead. Tasers are fine. When one of you said earlier on this thread that the probes might miss and the cop could be hit...I actually laughed out loud at the irony, as if a bullet missed, the cop could be hit...but, there's still the outrageously important question of where the fucking bullet went then?!! Seriously guys, if you hunters who know bullets pass through bodies and ricochet and miss and go fuck-knows-where beyond your target, why are you so adamant arming cops with sidearms is such a fabulous idea? I'm sorry to all cops, but if you don't want the risk, don't become a cop.


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I agree with trusting the ability of the police and the fact their culture can be corrupt, but that I think is the nature of their environment, dealing with scum all day every day is some thing I couldn't do! I struggle with some of my customers and staff! But that's the best we have and we would be much worse without them. I know an ex Senior Detective who was high profile in NZ, his attitude to the police now is appalling, mainly from his use and abuse, there no doubt is a deep rooted prob somewhere. Oh and Shotguns would be safer for most police to use, I guess cleaning up the mess and photos in the media wouldn't help, at least a bullet only leaves one neat hole, very PC

Originally Posted by Jexla

You missed every point I made Savage.

Yes of course there are not always numbers available but if numbers are limited why not take holstered firearms and tasers?
Firearms not available? Stop talking shit, we know firearms ARE available (in every vehicle in fact).
I said pulling a gun on someone with a baseball bat when you have other options is insane. At no point did I say NOR imply that having a holstered firearm is not acceptable. Stop reading what you want out of what I say.

I didn't miss the point at all, firearms aren't always available and aren't in every car, no matter what you think you know. You clearly know nothing about frontline policing other than what you've been told by the media. I'm not talking shit, where do you get your knowledge of firearms availability in the Police? Why didn't every cop have a firearm at the recent Lower Hutt standoff?

Pulling a gun on someone with a baseball bat isn't insane even when you have other options, such comments just shows your complete lack of knowledge or experience in such situations. Have you used a TASER or OC Spray? Do you know what you're talking about? Have you ever been lunged at by a person wanting to assault you? Do you realise how quickly that ground can be covered by a determined offender?

You're right I bet they didn't know all of that information when they approached the address, which raises more questions, why not? Why would you not do a background check on someone who's house you have a warrant for for drugs?
Maybe there needs to be a process change when it comes to executing warrants, it's for your safety remember?

Are you serious, the bottom line is if they had firearms then there most likely would have been a better outcome. Sure they made a mistake but the process could easily be changed to being armed as a norm. You don't only vist such addresses when executing search warrants, you also attend domestics/disorder/investigations etc, you cant put in the deailed background checks every time.

How could it not help? As I already explained, instead of having his car taken from him, he would have been riddled with bullets instead then lost his car. Also he got his dog out. Stop making more shit up.

So what did I make up? What if the offender shot him instead of chasing him off? I'm not making anything up, I've personally met the officer involved and heard his version, have you? Getting the dog out was an absolute fluke. How do you know he would have been shot had he had a gun to defend himself? Should cops not go armed to confront armed offenders because hopefully they will not want to fire and just steal the cops car and guns? What stupid logic.

It is NOT a different issue that isn't a problem in NZ, batons don't have the same effect as a gun to suspects and tasers record everything every time they're un holstered and a report has to be made, wouldn't be the same with a firearm.


You clearly know nothing about Police processes so don't even bother trying to comment on something you clearly know nothing about. Unlike you I'm not "making shit up", I have first hand front line experience and don't have gaping holes in my knowledge that require "shit" to be made up.

Don't worry, you can explain to my wife and kids, when they're old enough to understand, why I shouldn't carry a firearm at work to defend myself or others.

shot gun loaded with a couple of different loads if police have been called to a job that involves a death or vicious attack the first round up the spout is a leathal round if a less threatening situation is at hand first load could be rubber slug or buckshot followed by a leathal round if the message didnt get through ..... bring on the what ifs

Originally Posted by northdude

shot gun loaded with a couple of different loads if police have been called to a job that involves a death or vicious attack the first round up the spout is a leathal round if a less threatening situation is at hand first load could be rubber slug or buckshot followed by a leathal round if the message didnt get through ..... bring on the what ifs

I like this non-lethal buckshot!

Rubber buckshot

I think the need to arm police is also location based. I would think there are plenty of towns that don't need it. I fully support arming police in the crazy towns and suburbs where shits real nasty.

Armed carry....fuck off to America ..

Come on Gibo Wheres your sense of adventure? Often get a laugh out of the guy in the states who was accosted by, I think about 5 youths, late at night on a train, carrying a .45 auto I think, he killed some and put other into wheels chairs, guess problem solved!

Originally Posted by Gibo

I think the need to arm police is also location based. I would think there are plenty of towns that don't need it. I fully support arming police in the crazy towns and suburbs where shits real nasty.

Armed carry....fuck off to America ..

So, you wouldn't see the need for small towns eg places like Mangakino?

Originally Posted by Maca49

Come on Gibo Wheres your sense of adventure? Often get a laugh out of the guy in the states who was accosted by, I think about 5 youths, late at night on a train, carrying a .45 auto I think, he killed some and put other into wheels chairs, guess problem solved!

Yeah great outcome aye. Just look at some of the comments in this thread. The public being armed would be a lot more worrying to me than the police.

Originally Posted by Savage1

I believe conceal carry is a separate matter and shouldn't be used as a reason for or against Police arming. Police go to threats an encounter a lot of threats on a daily basis, their role can't be compared to a civilian in everyday life.

I'm truely neutral when it comes to conceal carry, I'm neither for or against it. But I hope people don't use that issue to prevent cops from having immediate access to firearms.

Thats not true. My wife is a social worker in a rural area so her job involves going out to the middle of nowhere (often with no cellphone reception) visiting people who come from the poorer section of our socieity. The bloke who went in insane and shot up the Ashburton Winz office last year had made up a list of people he was going to kell and my wife's boss was on the list. Luckerly for her he didn't get very far down the list on his insane murder day.

So she encounters threats on a daily basis and unlike police officers she doesn't have a radio, pepper spray, training or backup. Legally she isn't even allowed pepper spray.

If this was the states I would buy her a glock and send her on a training course to teach her how to use it. It wouldn't prevent all situations but at least it's something.

If you look at safty statistics the police generally do far worse than civilians. There has only been one injury at a civilian rifle range but there have been many at police ranges. Your average police officer spends less time being trained than I did to become a IT guy and has less firearms handling experiance than the average hunter bloke. Most average hunter blokes are scary unsafe people who I wouldn't want to stand in front of while they were holding a gun...

Originally Posted by zimmer

So, you wouldn't see the need for small towns eg places like Mangakino?

What's wrong with Mango? I didn't call out any particular towns for a reason.

Originally Posted by MassiveAttack

Thats not true. My wife is a social worker in a rural area so her job involves going out to the middle of nowhere (often with no cellphone reception) visiting people who come from the poorer section of our socieity. The bloke who went in insane and shot up the Ashburton Winz office last year had made up a list of people he was going to kell and my wife's boss was on the list. Luckerly for her he didn't get very far down the list on his insane murder day.

So she encounters threats on a daily basis and unlike police officers she doesn't have a radio, pepper spray, training or backup. Legally she isn't even allowed pepper spray.

If this was the states I would buy her a glock and send her on a training course to teach her how to use it. It wouldn't prevent all situations but at least it's something.

If you look at safty statistics the police generally do far worse than civilians. There has only been one injury at a civilian rifle range but there have been many at police ranges. Your average police officer spends less time being trained than I did to become a IT guy and has less firearms handling experiance than the average hunter bloke. Most average hunter blokes are scary unsafe people who I wouldn't want to stand in front of while they were holding a gun...

What's the difference between a civilian and a average hunter bloke?

Originally Posted by Gibo

What's the difference between a civilian and a average hunter bloke?

A firearms license.

Originally Posted by sako75

No cop should go to work for his/her shift and go home in a coffin - full stop
Our society is changing and so are the threats they are facing. Give them the tools they need to ensure they go home each day.

I'm sure @Maca49 would like to see them armed with black powder pistols and long rifles

That applies to everyone. Farmers who live in poor rural areas. People who live in poor urban areas. Security guards that go out to alarms late at night, social workers.

Everyone who faces a threat has the right to defend themselves and should have the right to use the appropriate tools to do so, police or not.