Thread: Wtf

Originally Posted by Tahr

“Forgiveness has nothing to do with absolving a criminal of his crime. It has everything to do with relieving oneself of the burden of being a victim--letting go of the pain and transforming oneself from victim to survivor.”
― C.R. Strahan

Yesssss I was trying to find this!

Not trying to diss the victims here, but what sentence would it take? I doubt, if they allow themselves to continue dwelling, that a life sentence or hanging or shooting or anything like that will make themselves feel better until they decide to feel better and move on.

We are much better as people to take a deep breath and be sad, but know that we can't control other people's bad actions and continue with our lives.

And trying to stay beyond the dirty P word here - now remember who I am and where I am coming from as well, I'm not the most clued up on this stuff but do have an interest and am coming from a genuine place - is prison and serving sentences not just about punishment, but also about the safety of others and the rehabilitation of the offender?

Like...trying to help them to 1) not be in the position again and 2) if they are there again, make a better decision?

Originally Posted by Tahr

“Forgiveness has nothing to do with absolving a criminal of his crime. It has everything to do with relieving oneself of the burden of being a victim--letting go of the pain and transforming oneself from victim to survivor.”
― C.R. Strahan

Originally Posted by Dougie

Yesssss I was trying to find this!

Not trying to diss the victims here, but what sentence would it take? I doubt, if they allow themselves to continue dwelling, that a life sentence or hanging or shooting or anything like that will make themselves feel better until they decide to feel better and move on.

We are much better as people to take a deep breath and be sad, but know that we can't control other people's bad actions and continue with our lives.

A bit like that story about the two wolves fighting.


It is a very complex issue with no single answer. Some will straighten up quick sharp, others will not. There is more to it than just leaving the legislature, police and judicial system to deal with the problem. It is a society problem; it is our problem. Everyone is the victim and everyone needs to be part of the solution. It costs everyone in increased insurance costs or just accepting the inevitable losses.

Look at why so many are heading down this road. Find this out and fix the problems there and things will improve. This thread is really about the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and deciding which side of the beach at the bottom to park. The majority of the problems stem from unemployment/financial stress, lack of father figures/role models in their lives and our tendency to not have such strong local communities. We need more people to put in an effort in their local communities and dare I say it better/new government approaches to economic development/welfare that will benefit the whole community.

And yes, I'm sorry, I was a bit of an internet troll stirring the pot earlier to bring out a few more views.

Originally Posted by Dougie

Yesssss I was trying to find this!

Not trying to diss the victims here, but what sentence would it take? I doubt, if they allow themselves to continue dwelling, that a life sentence or hanging or shooting or anything like that will make themselves feel better until they decide to feel better and move on.

We are much better as people to take a deep breath and be sad, but know that we can't control other people's bad actions and continue with our lives.

I see your point, Dougie, but as in all things human, it is not quite so simple...most people simply need a sense of justice to prevail...and it is the sense of justice that eleviates much of the pain and devastating loss...knowing that there is some justice in the whole ghastly abhorrant matter...as a democratic country, we have a perception and an expectation that justice and lawfulness will serve us and protect us...

The families are not the victims, the person lost is the victim; the family are the ones with holes in their hearts...which only TIME will ease...

Yes I agree EeeBees, if only it were that simple! Sigh.

Why aren't people just good to each other??!


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Well we all have different ideals, aspirations, sense of self, and on and on and on...we, the human, are the most vicious of all animals...the atrocities that we will exact upon others has no bounds...thankfully, most of us never realise our capabilities...

Originally Posted by EeeBees

I see your point, Dougie, but as in all things human, it is not quite so simple...most people simply need a sense of justice to prevail...and it is the sense of justice that eleviates much of the pain and devastating loss...knowing that there is some justice in the whole ghastly abhorrant matter...as a democratic country, we have a perception and an expectation that justice and lawfulness will serve us and protect us...

The families are not the victims, the person lost is the victim; the family are the ones with holes in their hearts...which only TIME will ease...

Well, sometimes time never heals. Often because we are hooked into wishing for a better past. Peace is likely to elude us until we let that futile hope go, and begin to construct a more hopeful future ourselves.

Yes, Tahr you are right, but it cannot happen overnight...

Sorry guys, I have to disagree with some of the well meant and noble statements in the last few posts. If only we lived in a perfect world.

I work as a psychiatric nurse in the public mental health system. I have a Masters Degree in Mental Health Nursing so feel somewhat qualified to comment, not only on a professional level, but also from personal experience which I alluded to in an earlier post..

I see daily the devastation and complete loss of worth that a member or members of families of victims suffer. It is not so cut and dried. Families of victims become victims themselves and often suffer horrendously. The mind is a complex organism and some people simply cannot cope with a life changing event in their lives. Unfortunately, making a decision to "feel better and move on" is not an option that some people, through no fault of their own, are able to undertake.

Time does ease pain, however the pain will always be there. Just depends on how well an individual can cope with it.

Most people need closure. Justice needs to be not only seen and heard, but also delivered commensurate to the crime. If the families of victims cannot comprehend the decision then their grief will only be compounded. It's a difficult area, one of which I don't have an answer to.

What I do believe though is that if a person wilfully and callously takes the life of another person then they should forfeit their life. An eye for an eye in my ideal just world.

Just saying....

... "commensurate" is the world you used... and apparently to the satisfaction of the person so affected... and you think that would be a perfect outcome?

What about the community of people around the offender who might not feel that the victims subjectivity about what is "commensurate" might not be equitable...?

Do you think that might create ongoing problems for society if we rely on a victims perception of what is commensurate, and expect the state to execute that? What about those innocent people around that offender...will you be working with them as a result of their perception of inequitable treatment as a result of relying on the subjectivity of victims?

Closure is not relevant to the length or type of sentence applied. It is relevant to the ability of the person to reconcile the situation for themselves and the support to do so. People will either achieve that or will never achieve that irrespective of the actual outcomes from the justice system..

"commensurate" as prescribed by law. You took it the wrong way and assumed I was stating otherwise.

Good on ya ExPoh - things were getting way too lovey-dovey up in this thread.

The problem with "keeping an open mind" is that sometimes ya brain falls out

Originally Posted by ExPoh75

Sorry guys, I have to disagree with some of the well meant and noble statements in the last few posts. If only we lived in a perfect world.

I work as a psychiatric nurse in the public mental health system. I have a Masters Degree in Mental Health Nursing so feel somewhat qualified to comment, not only on a professional level, but also from personal experience which I alluded to in an earlier post..

I see daily the devastation and complete loss of worth that a member or members of families of victims suffer. It is not so cut and dried. Families of victims become victims themselves and often suffer horrendously. The mind is a complex organism and some people simply cannot cope with a life changing event in their lives. Unfortunately, making a decision to "feel better and move on" is not an option that some people, through no fault of their own, are able to undertake.

Time does ease pain, however the pain will always be there. Just depends on how well an individual can cope with it.

Most people need closure. Justice needs to be not only seen and heard, but also delivered commensurate to the crime. If the families of victims cannot comprehend the decision then their grief will only be compounded. It's a difficult area, one of which I don't have an answer to.

What I do believe though is that if a person wilfully and callously takes the life of another person then they should forfeit their life. An eye for an eye in my ideal just world.

Just saying....

Your apparent objectivity was rather undermined by your last paragraph, and your first post. It seems that closure for you, in your particular circumstances, was dependent on the corporal punishment of the person who caused your father's death.

Your qualifications and professional opinion mean nothing if you can not remain objective.
I have a PhD in life, and a few certificates, which include "50 yards freestyle".

Originally Posted by Dougie

Yes I agree EeeBees, if only it were that simple! Sigh.

Why aren't people just good to each other??!


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"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" - Jeramiah.

expoh-hmmmy es like yourself im a psych nurse(43yrs) and i agree with your POV.my only comment on this whole thing is why this bloke makes an unequivocal statement about not going near firearms ever again ,then oops i forgot to mention Im intending to reapply for my FAL????????HYPOCRISYand self entitlement. its a little like career crims whose lawyers tell the court about their letters of remorse etc etc .its blatantly obvious is a cover my own arse shorten my sentence tactic.I often hear em laughing about it on the shop floor.
anyone who like my colleague and I has worked in institutions(me Im in the forensic psychiatric field) sees the human psyche unadorned and often at it very worstand often there are no answers ,apart from DEATH(which if you actually think about it is the ultimate answer to all lifes problems)
Now sidney before you jump on me ,and seeing as you appear clued up ,google Dr Ceri Evans -hes very well written on the psyche of criminals,the function of psyche in realtion to crime ,and the functioning of the psyche in relation to the after effects of crime. Ceri is my boss.