Thread: Wtf

Originally Posted by Scouser

Cheers Syd, if i may be so bold and ask what is your personal view on this, and not your legal view?

I think that the realistic way to look at this is to imagine how it would affect you...

I think that its a little weird, and I can't imagine wanting to carry a rifle again because of that association with what happened. But I also think that I would still want to hunt again, the whole experience, the outdoors, the pursuit is all therapeutic for me and I can imagine looking for that again. I can't guarantee that I wouldn't feel like that again after some time had passed.

Personally I wouldn't consider it disrespectful to the victims, but neither would it be something that I considered doing again lightly. If I did it, I would almost guarantee that it would be a solo experience, even if I did have mates who supported me in doing it again. For me there is almost a spiritual connection to hunting and to deny that to somebody if they wanted to connect with that again, seems inequitable.

Maybe bowhunting or perhaps camera, possibly firearms but at this end of it its too hard to say. That is sort of the point though. The trauma of the event and the utter desperation prompts people to do and say things that they mean, but time passes. Any human person seeks to restore themselves. This isn't about excusing behaviour or justification. But perpetuating punishment is not the role of the state or the rest of us.

I genuinely believe that for most, they would be safer than any other hunter out there. Now Mr Dumber might not be and that is not for me to say. But I also believe its not for me to say whether he should hunt again, provided he can establish that he is suitable. The level of scrutiny that he is obligated to satisfy is going to be greater than it is for the rest of us, and he should have to conclusively establish that he is suitable. Part of that process might have to include psychological evaluation.

In many ways, going hunting again would provide constant reminders and that would not be easy. It may actually be easier to not go hunting again.

All of this stuff isn't as simple as most would like it to be...

Sidney, it may not be up to Scouser or anyone, but everyone is permitted an opinion because everytime someone out there fucks up with a firearm, we all feel it...we all feel agrieved...

I think a lot of you guys need to get off your high horses, until you experience something similar you may not realise that this can happen to anybody. In my case my friend still sees the "deer" and I believe him. We all still "see" and remember a lot of things.

You can follow the seven rules, yet incorrectly i.d your target.

If this guy is deemed to be fit and proper again, there is no reason why he cant have his FAL. Whether or not he is fit and proper is not up to me to decide. I don't know the guy.

I can guarantee that experiencing the accidental shooting of a mate, really drives home just important those seven rules are, and would also argue that it indeed made me a much more safety conscious member of the community. Realising just how fragile life is really changes your perspective.

I just don't know if this Dummer guy has learnt anything by the sound of it

My thoughts go out to anyone who has lost family, a friend or someone they love in tragic circumstances.

Like scribe said, I would rather hunt with someone who thinks they could kill someone, than someone who thinks it will never happen to them.

Thats interesting, I have hunted with Chris just prior to the shooting and he didnt smoke

Mmm there are a about 8 or so members on here including me that spent a week Tahr hunting with him, never saw him smoke, he did say and do some strange things though. Maybe there was someone else in the hunting area.

You can follow the seven rules, yet incorrectly i.d your target.

No you can't cos identify your target is rule number 4.

I don't see how people can mistake their target unless someone is wearing an animal suit. If you can't identify an organ or head shot to cleanly kill it, you shouldn't shoot period.

I was parked up in a clearing one day, I hear something making noise so I stalk in to check it out. All I first see is the back of some dudes head moving then disappearing behind a bush. I 100% ID'd my target as a goat, and wondered wtf goats were doing in this area. I could have fired through the bush at movement alone with my semi auto, but that's just dumb. I waited for it to move out past the bush so I could get a front quarter organ shot (being a hunter and all). Alas it was no goat, just some dude wearing blaze. I hadn't even shouldered my rifle.

People need to check their enthusiasm and assume everything in the bush is another hunter. At one stage early on in my hunting, I had run into more people in the bush than game.

Originally Posted by tararua

No you can't cos identify your target is rule number 4.

I don't see how people can mistake their target unless someone is wearing an animal suit. If you can't identify an organ or head shot to cleanly kill it, you shouldn't shoot period.

Not quite. This has been studied many times and it has been shown that people often 'see' what they expect/want to see. That is why there is the suggestion we should all stop and think to ourselves, "Is this a person?"

Analogous to crashing a motor vehicle. If you concentrate on what you might hit the odds are that you will hit it. If you concentrate on the safe spaces your outcome is likely to improve.

In an ideal world, Chris could be treated the same as someone with a drivers license who caused death via an accident/carelessness. No license ever again, either FAL or drivers. Unfortunately we live in the real world, so drivers do get behind the wheel again.

Here's hoping Chris doesn't get ever his FAL, due primarily to Cam's rights being removed and his inability to have a say in the matter.

Cam's right to have Xmas dinner with his family should trump Chris's right to help return / integrate into society, which seems to be via his desire to shoot and hunt again.

Alas the current law in NZ simply doesn't allow that to happen.

meh I'm just saying I think he has eye problems.

Originally Posted by tararua

meh I'm just saying I think he has eye problems.

No you said he's a couch potato because he's a smoker and wants a gun for easier work.
As I said - the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The last bit doesn't even make sense.
Do you live on a commune?

He's obviously a couch potato, being a smoker and whatnot. That's why he wants a gun, so much easier work.

Thanks Sydney, i totally understand & comprehend you reasoning......

Just as an aside to this topic, few years back bunch of youths got into a fight at local park. One of them carried a gun up from Christchurch. One youth got shot and killed with it. A few of the youths went to jail for this. I read in the paper tonight they had a second trial on appeal and were acquitted as jury believed "self defence" (like the youth couldn't unload it to prevent exactly what happened). I wouldn't be too harsh on the accidental shooting man after reading this outcome. Police must be gob smacked.

Grain of salt fellas.

Originally Posted by GSP

Just as an aside to this topic, few years back bunch of youths got into a fight at local park. One of them carried a gun up from Christchurch. One youth got shot and killed with it. A few of the youths went to jail for this. I read in the paper tonight they had a second trial on appeal and were acquitted as jury believed "self defence" (like the youth couldn't unload it to prevent exactly what happened). I wouldn't be too harsh on the accidental shooting man after reading this outcome. Police must be gob smacked.

That one was a bit iffy to claim self defense, the jury were obviously convinced though. To me it didn't seem like a black and white case like the guncity guy defending himself from machete man.

Just goes to show how corrupt the justice system is in this country. There is no justice for the victoms anyway.

DD, I don't think the justice system here is "corrupt". If you want to see what a corrupt system looks like, go look at several countries in Africa where you can buy yourself out of a spot fine by bribing a cop and make dockets "disappear" by paying the correct person...

What it is over here is liberal, limp-wristed etc, but not necessarily corrupt. But society gets the justice system that matches it's values and beliefs. We a reaping the rewards of softly-softly, don't be too harsh approach.

Originally Posted by ebf

We a reaping the rewards of softly-softly, don't be too harsh approach.

To right ebf. What we need is a massive swing to the right of Roy Bean and Genghis Khan with public floggings and a stock and gallows in every town square.