Thread: Wtf

Originally Posted by 308

Shit, sorry Mr Mod, He's obviously a great guy who wouldn't lie to a grieving mother

Yeah, a real prince

The fact that somebody, anybody, has had a head injury is in no way a barrier to them being a fit and proper person unless that head injury leaves them medically unfit.

Fair enough, you are right

I am genuinely at a loss to explain this guy's behaviour in that case - maybe he is totally amoral or has no human empathy at all.

Whatever the cause may be I hope he doesn't get his license back

Originally Posted by jakewire

The fact that somebody, anybody, has had a head injury is in no way a barrier to them being a fit and proper person unless that head injury leaves them medically unfit.

The whole point of this discussion, taking away the awful result of this persons action, is the fact that 'everybody' on this forum apart from Angus (to my knowledge) is in possesion of a FAL

Whether we hunt, punch paper, cull as a proffesion, eradicate pests, .........whatever.......when WE become legal firearm licence holders, we take on a huge moral obligation and a HUGE responsibility to society as a whole, to be SAFE in our said activity to peers and strangers alike...

It is not acceptable to me (IMHO) to say, 'sorry i screwed up, made a mistake' ect.....and then EXPECT to be able to carry on as if nothing happened......he has taken an innocent life.....I REPEAT, AN INNOCENT LIFE, not a near miss or a flesh wound......how?.....because he did not VERIFY his intended target......he did not have the patience to wait a couple of seconds to 100% make sure.......im a newbie, only took up the challenge of hunting last year.....i made my own personal vow to (hopefully, im only human after all) not pull the trigger until i have
1) 100% verified i have recognised the target species and the backdrop is safe
2) double checked above when i have looked through my scope
i have had buck fever, and felt the adrenalin rush, but the overiding consequence (thank fuck) of not screwing up and causing tragedy for both sets of family & friends has held me back......im not trying to be Mr billy big bollocks who will never make a mistake as (hopefully) my ego is not that big......but this guy, to go back to the original reason im writing this, has NO 'right' to owning a FAL ever again.....whatever the legal right or wrongs

its not up to you....

Originally Posted by Sidney

its not up to you....

Cheers Syd, if i may be so bold and ask what is your personal view on this, and not your legal view?

Sidney, it may not be up to Scouser or anyone, but everyone is permitted an opinion because everytime someone out there fucks up with a firearm, we all feel it...we all feel agrieved...

Originally Posted by Scouser

Cheers Syd, if i may be so bold and ask what is your personal view on this, and not your legal view?

I think that the realistic way to look at this is to imagine how it would affect you...

I think that its a little weird, and I can't imagine wanting to carry a rifle again because of that association with what happened. But I also think that I would still want to hunt again, the whole experience, the outdoors, the pursuit is all therapeutic for me and I can imagine looking for that again. I can't guarantee that I wouldn't feel like that again after some time had passed.

Personally I wouldn't consider it disrespectful to the victims, but neither would it be something that I considered doing again lightly. If I did it, I would almost guarantee that it would be a solo experience, even if I did have mates who supported me in doing it again. For me there is almost a spiritual connection to hunting and to deny that to somebody if they wanted to connect with that again, seems inequitable.

Maybe bowhunting or perhaps camera, possibly firearms but at this end of it its too hard to say. That is sort of the point though. The trauma of the event and the utter desperation prompts people to do and say things that they mean, but time passes. Any human person seeks to restore themselves. This isn't about excusing behaviour or justification. But perpetuating punishment is not the role of the state or the rest of us.

I genuinely believe that for most, they would be safer than any other hunter out there. Now Mr Dumber might not be and that is not for me to say. But I also believe its not for me to say whether he should hunt again, provided he can establish that he is suitable. The level of scrutiny that he is obligated to satisfy is going to be greater than it is for the rest of us, and he should have to conclusively establish that he is suitable. Part of that process might have to include psychological evaluation.

In many ways, going hunting again would provide constant reminders and that would not be easy. It may actually be easier to not go hunting again.

All of this stuff isn't as simple as most would like it to be...

Originally Posted by 308

About a month after the shooting I spoke to a guy who was on a hunt trip with this Dummer. The hunters had divvied up where they were going to go the night before and when setting out to his allotted area the next morning this guy smelled Dummers cigarette smoke in the area where he wasn't meant to be - when caught up with he said he'd changed his mind and thought it wasn't a big deal.

I've heard other rumours about this guy but that's the only one I know that I trust the speaker to be telling true.

I've worked way too hard to get my licenses to have my sport endangered by a dangerously foolish person like Dummer (with his road rage conviction)

To me he's like a recidivist drunk driver on the road - he's had his chances and fucked them up so it's time to take his toys away

Thats interesting, I have hunted with Chris just prior to the shooting and he didnt smoke

I think a lot of you guys need to get off your high horses, until you experience something similar you may not realise that this can happen to anybody. In my case my friend still sees the "deer" and I believe him. We all still "see" and remember a lot of things.

You can follow the seven rules, yet incorrectly i.d your target.

If this guy is deemed to be fit and proper again, there is no reason why he cant have his FAL. Whether or not he is fit and proper is not up to me to decide. I don't know the guy.

I can guarantee that experiencing the accidental shooting of a mate, really drives home just important those seven rules are, and would also argue that it indeed made me a much more safety conscious member of the community. Realising just how fragile life is really changes your perspective.

I just don't know if this Dummer guy has learnt anything by the sound of it

My thoughts go out to anyone who has lost family, a friend or someone they love in tragic circumstances.

Like scribe said, I would rather hunt with someone who thinks they could kill someone, than someone who thinks it will never happen to them.

Thats interesting, I have hunted with Chris just prior to the shooting and he didnt smoke

Mmm there are a about 8 or so members on here including me that spent a week Tahr hunting with him, never saw him smoke, he did say and do some strange things though. Maybe there was someone else in the hunting area.

You can follow the seven rules, yet incorrectly i.d your target.

No you can't cos identify your target is rule number 4.

I don't see how people can mistake their target unless someone is wearing an animal suit. If you can't identify an organ or head shot to cleanly kill it, you shouldn't shoot period.

I was parked up in a clearing one day, I hear something making noise so I stalk in to check it out. All I first see is the back of some dudes head moving then disappearing behind a bush. I 100% ID'd my target as a goat, and wondered wtf goats were doing in this area. I could have fired through the bush at movement alone with my semi auto, but that's just dumb. I waited for it to move out past the bush so I could get a front quarter organ shot (being a hunter and all). Alas it was no goat, just some dude wearing blaze. I hadn't even shouldered my rifle.

People need to check their enthusiasm and assume everything in the bush is another hunter. At one stage early on in my hunting, I had run into more people in the bush than game.

In an ideal world, Chris could be treated the same as someone with a drivers license who caused death via an accident/carelessness. No license ever again, either FAL or drivers. Unfortunately we live in the real world, so drivers do get behind the wheel again.

Here's hoping Chris doesn't get ever his FAL, due primarily to Cam's rights being removed and his inability to have a say in the matter.

Cam's right to have Xmas dinner with his family should trump Chris's right to help return / integrate into society, which seems to be via his desire to shoot and hunt again.

Alas the current law in NZ simply doesn't allow that to happen.

Originally Posted by tararua

He's obviously a couch potato, being a smoker and whatnot. That's why he wants a gun, so much easier work.

Didn't he keep insisting, he 'saw the shoulder of a deer'? When it was actually a blaze beanie 16 meters away? Fuck he probably has glaucoma from all that tobacco.

So smoking was the cause of everything?

Seriously ?? He's obviously a couch potato, being a smoker and whatnot.

That is the most STUPID thing I have ever heard.

meh I'm just saying I think he has eye problems.

Originally Posted by tararua

meh I'm just saying I think he has eye problems.

No you said he's a couch potato because he's a smoker and wants a gun for easier work.
As I said - the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The last bit doesn't even make sense.
Do you live on a commune?

He's obviously a couch potato, being a smoker and whatnot. That's why he wants a gun, so much easier work.