Thread: Yet another shooting incident in the states

Originally Posted by ebf

They (edit: ebf is referring to police, I misquoted - Ryan) deal with all the scumbags and lowlife wankers on your and my behalf...

Just quietly, the police face the exact same threats as the public.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Just quietly, the police face the exact same threats as the public.

In a hell of a lot higher rate than the average citizen.

Originally Posted by Tussock

Im only discussing this for amusement. We have two guys who seem fans of passive citzens. Let the citizens be meek as lambs and give more power to the police? Just because we have a police force we can trust now does not mean we will always have one. Why are people so short sighted?

Why do we constantly compare our society to America? They are completely different and hopefully they will stay that way.

Also, and this is a bit of a broken record but I will give it one more punt. You keep implying I would "pull" a knife. I would not, or carry one. I don't need to. Im huge and Iv been doing various combat sports for more than 10 years. I can also run pretty fast for a big unit.

But I have had three friends raped. There is a humorous saying "rapists dont box, they wrestle". Grappling means you need to grapple. I know quite a few women that if they must walk somewhere at night, they do so with their hand around the handle of a knife. Try drag them into the bushes and you will likely lose fingers on the hand you grabbed with. The old "it will be used on you" line is silly. Women dont mess around, give them the tools to do the job and the will to use them and they make guys look like pussies. In the states, some women would have a hand gun, and they regularly use them with success.

One friend of mine was sexually assaulted. She was pushed against a wall and pinned, and when the attacker gave up one hand to begin the assault, she smashed the RTD bottle she had in that hand and stabbed him in the ear with it. Full force to the side of the head. Needless to say, that was as far as he got, and she legged it. My other two friends were not armed, they did not get off so lightly. One girl was dragged into a car, she was unable to pry the hand on her loose to attract the attention of other people close by, but managed to struggle for a while before being dragged inside. She could have cut herself loose with ease.

Pepper spray is completely useless once your that close, as Gimp said your as likely to cop it as they are. The police have said handbag tazers will not be allowed in New Zealand. I like them too. Good for shoving into the side of someones head.

There are a few other chicks I know of who, were they dragged to the ground by a larger, male attacker would leave the guy in a mangled heap. Im pretty big and pretty strong and I know how to defend myself from what they would do and I would still last about 20 seconds before one of my shoulders was ripped clean out of its socket.

Im all for arming the crap out of the meek and mild.

If we had a police force that could be trusted indefinitely, and who were garunteed to keep you safe, then I think its reasonable to hand all the responsibility over to them. But they are not even close. I did not make up that situation where my female relatives found their secluded home with the door kicked in and the police never came.

The cops like to sell you a line where they will keep you safe, but they don't do much of a job of it. Untill they have a 100% perfect record I don't think unreasonable to ramp up the available arsenal for citizens. Our sexual assault rate is pretty high.

Out of your friends that were sexually assaulted, how many had alcohol in their system so couldn't have had a pistol on them? How many were assaulted by a person they know? Which is by far the most common situation. How many were in completely avoidable situations such as walking alone in the dark through a park? I'm in no way implying that it was their fault. Sexual attacks on random sober females is actually very rare, they are normally by a person who is well known to the victim. I don't know where you got the high rate bullshit from.

At least mace, which is effective at close range(not sure where you got that bullshit from), could be used and would put the attacker off of his game, even if you cop some yourself it has still done its job. But you all seem to be uninterested in a alternative to a gun, which could only be used in very rare situations.

The Police do the best they can with what they have, if there is a real threat of somebody being attacked then the law backs them in defending themselves.

In theory I agree with you, but in reality it won't work in our society in my opinion and would cause a lot more problems than it would solve.

Originally Posted by Tussock

I think you missed the point. If a cop runs into a lot of nasty criminals, it is because there are a lot of nasty criminals. They achieve nasty criminal status by doing nasty shit to ordinary citizens.

You definitely do not get the impression the aim of the police force is to simply have nothing to do.

You forget that Police are actively seeking them so will run into them a lot more, especially since they are constantly encroaching on their home turf. So Police do face more than the average citizen.

Examples of abuse of a CCW:

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and, most notably,

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just going to leave this here to lighten the mood

Ah cool so we've been reduced to being labeled as "anti" or "fans of passive citizens"...

Guess I'll have to add it to the collection

Name calling really elevates the level of the debate boys

Beavis: wow, saying something along the line of "I'm right and you're wrong" (your "condensing of the thread) does not really constitute an objective discussion

Tussock : I'm still keen to hear how you propose using a knife for self-defense without pulling it Mate, if you want to live in Ethiopia, Somalia, Afghanistan or another shithole where mob-justice and anarchy is the current form of government, pls be my guest

Originally Posted by ebf

Name calling really elevates the level of the debate boys

You might want to read some of savage1's posts.


This format is too untidy to have a proper discussion and ccw will never happen in NZ.

My stance is that there are no particular downsides to appropriately licensed and trained citizens carrying guns for self defence, even though there isn't necessarily a hugely glaring need. We all wear seatbelts, have first aid training, keep fire extinguishers in the home, etc. Right? Same same.

Originally Posted by gimp

just going to leave this here to lighten the mood

Hmmm LOL Traction and Co ordination problems ha ha ..

That's funny .. Kitty needs CCW ... sort that dangerous creature shit right out ..

In a handbag? they'd never find it


(handbag carry sucks)

not many guys that would admit of a public forum that they carry a handbag gimp but hey, all power to you

P.S. that kitten is definitely not "fit and proper"...

Originally Posted by ebf

not many guys that would admit of a public forum that they carry a handbag gimp but hey, all power to you

P.S. that kitten is definitely not "fit and proper"...

You don't even know that Kitten how can you say that... Could be the biggest pacifist in the world..

How mean ...

Originally Posted by ebf

not many guys that would admit of a public forum that they carry a handbag gimp but hey, all power to you

P.S. that kitten is definitely not "fit and proper"...

I do actually carry a manbag.

-Fits 2x cans of beer
-Wallet, phone etc don't get sat on
-My arse doesn't look lumpy in my tight jeans, nothing in the pockets.

I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Originally Posted by Tussock

At some point the general public was deemed completely incapable of doing anything, or looking after themselves.

Catering to the lowest common denominator; a consequence of people being told what to think, by the media, their governments - instead of thinking for themselves (which a surprisingly large proportion of people are actually still very capable of doing).

Originally Posted by Tussock

Do not engage brain.

For a great many in our society this goes along well with their other characteristics "Open mouth" and "Insert foot"