Thread: Yet another shooting incident in the states

Originally Posted by Tussock

Yep. Stay in your living rooms, and absorb the crap coming through your TV, buy shit you don't need and do as your told. Do not engage brain.

I stopped watching TV and following main stream media a long time ago. I got sick of the spin, half arsed half the facts reporting and the condescending "we're telling you what to think" tone. I think I'm better off for it.

Originally Posted by ebf

Ah cool so we've been reduced to being labeled as "anti" or "fans of passive citizens"...

Guess I'll have to add it to the collection

Name calling really elevates the level of the debate boys

Beavis: wow, saying something along the line of "I'm right and you're wrong" (your "condensing of the thread) does not really constitute an objective discussion

Tussock : I'm still keen to hear how you propose using a knife for self-defense without pulling it Mate, if you want to live in Ethiopia, Somalia, Afghanistan or another shithole where mob-justice and anarchy is the current form of government, pls be my guest

Yea but I didn't say that, that was my point of view of the thread thus far.

I had an experience that totally changed me from a LMOE (last-man-on-earth gun fanatic) to a regular 'leave it in the safe' kind of gun owner. It was just on dark and i was leaving my mates house, went down the stairs and i got my keys out. The rattle saved my life. Just as i neared my car a scumbag in a hoody charged me, armed with a 10' screwdriver. I had 1.5 seconds to react, luckily my brain didnt say "find a weapon". Somehow i sidestepped him and lent backwards.

No amount of weapon training or owning 500 firearms would have helped. My point is, you may not get a chance so don't place all your faith in your marksmanship.

The hood evidently just wanted out and I'd inadvertently blocked him in while he was trying to break into my car. 10 seconds later i was telling myself to stop chasing him HAHA. Adrenalin makes you do dumb things eh.

I went to the supermarket and my house didn't go on fire while I was out, so I don't need to know first aid.

Originally Posted by Eion

Why do we end up constantly debating this topic. Honestly you're a fool if you think that the way it is is fine; you're a fool if you think that you can change it. Barking at each other isn't going to change much. Really none of us have a clue what the f**k we're talking about. Each side is sure they are right and the other is biased. Anyway personally i think self defense ownership is bullshit. If someone has the means to kill you, and is going to kill you, they will kill you. No James Bond shit, by the time you've drawn your weapon (if they intended to kill you) you're dead. plain and simple. Aside from that do many of us have the training that makes us quick enough to react to a situation like this and react appropriately. Try this: You're walking by a house and are armed. A man runs out with a knife covered in what looks like blood, stops screams I'm going to kill them, and starts to run back inside. What do you do, let him run away and maybe kill whom ever or what ever, or do you shoot the man and maybe save a life by taking one.

Two options option 1=your armed with a shoty said fulla comes out of house with blood on knife...........swing shoty like a baseball bat in self defnce job done!
option 2=your armed with a pistol said fulla comes out house with blood on knife..............tap tap into forehead fulla hits ground like sack of spuds dies you plead he was running at me with a knife that had blood on it so i acted in self denfence......first time offender 12 months home detention job done
some of you guys are talking hypothetical bullshit! were all gonna act diff and untill your in that situation your just guessing.

Can i still have my casull or are we past that now

Originally Posted by Neckshot

tap tap into forehead

Come on Neckshot, were you not paying attention? Three shots mate. Heart, head, head. All in quick succession.

Originally Posted by Neckshot

some of you guys are talking hypothetical bullshit! were all gonna act diff and untill your in that situation your just guessing.

Our secretary is from SA, she left because her dad was shot dead in a breakin, the third time with armed thieves I think she said. In another incident she shot a mugger in the arm....apparantly on purpose...(the arm). Given she is very good looking I wouldnt have wanted to give odds it was only her wallet they were after. Thank F* we are not in a country like that. Look at the US statistics on "self defence" 800,000+ per year.....10,000+ deaths, many accidental...just as mind boggling. When all is said and done we are remarkably safe in NZ compared with the rest of the world, yet have reasonable gun laws. Personally I think our biggest risks are actually a) sensationalist seaking media looking to sell air time and advertising space and not in anyway be rational, fair or honest and not the laws or the cops. b) Pollies, at some stage of course a nutjob will go shooting crazy here and then our Pollies will be in a lolly scamble for votes to make our voters feel safe, it wont be rational, logical or fair.... c) ourselves, looking at the incidents in NZ I think we should be doing a better job of policing ourselves, our mates and promoting our rights, sounding like the US NRA nutjobs isnt a good look.

Originally Posted by steven

Our secretary is from SA, she left because her dad was shot dead in a breakin, the third time with armed thieves I think she said. In another incident she shot a mugger in the arm....apparantly on purpose...(the arm). Given she is very good looking I wouldnt have wanted to give odds it was only her wallet they were after. Thank F* we are not in a country like that. Look at the US statistics on "self defence" 800,000+ per year.....10,000+ deaths, many accidental...just as mind boggling. When all is said and done we are remarkably safe in NZ compared with the rest of the world, yet have reasonable gun laws. Personally I think our biggest risks are actually a) sensationalist seaking media looking to sell air time and advertising space and not in anyway be rational, fair or honest and not the laws or the cops. b) Pollies, at some stage of course a nutjob will go shooting crazy here and then our Pollies will be in a lolly scamble for votes to make our voters feel safe, it wont be rational, logical or fair.... c) ourselves, looking at the incidents in NZ I think we should be doing a better job of policing ourselves, our mates and promoting our rights, sounding like the US NRA nutjobs isnt a good look.

good post steven

Greg Carvell is someone interesting to chat to on this topic, as he knows 1st hand on how it works in NZ
The whole in the door has been repaired but the one in the glass is there as a reminder

Originally Posted by Tussock

Ordinary people actually do extremely well if they are mentally prepared.

They can do appallingly badly if they are not.

And that really is the key. The "average, ordinary" person out there is NOT mentally prepared. The are situationally unaware. But it is these kinds of people who we are talking about arming with concealed pistols.

Not Beavis who is going to train like crazy, or Tussock who is supremely confident, it is Moe and Joe who may or may not have control over their emotions, may or may not be drunk or stoned etc.

Some of you guys seem to find the prospect of a random violent criminal scary enough to want to go down the route of CCW. I've lived in a place where this was the norm, it is not fun... There are negative and positive sides to each argument. For each life saved story Tussock has, I am sure we can find a child killed by finding his dads poorly secured firearm, or daughter shot mistakenly as she crept into the house long after her curfew story.

I find the prospect of the "average" citizen out there being armed just as scary or even scarier than the "random active shooter"

Originally Posted by Tussock

I dont recall suggesting we hand them out at street corners. Also, my "save just one life" was a reversal of the statement used regarding gun restrictions. It was to demonstrate that the "save just one life" emotive rhetoric can be used both ways, as you have just correctly pointed out.

But you did comment about your view of the (poor) firearm skills of the police, didn't you ? Now they have specific training both with firearms and with dealing with crisis situations, and get to practice (at least the people skills side) almost daily. Be interesting to hear what training regime you propose and would be willing to accept for Joe Blogs before he is allowed CCW, seeing as you don't seem to be a fan of "government control".

Originally Posted by Tussock

I would suggest if the average citizen is not mentally prepared for adversity, it is because society has failed them. Not because the average person is incompetent.

Or you could say the average citizen has actually failed society, depends on how you view life Tussock

Originally Posted by Tussock

Instead of looking at America, explain how Ethiopia can have concealed carry, and there is virtually no gun crime?

You sure you want to do this ?

Guns in Ethiopia: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

Rate of privately owned firearms : Ethiopia is ranked at 174 out of 178 countries...

Tussock, with all due respect, you are talking bullshit You want to hold Ethiopia up as an positive example ? What are you smoking mate ? Human rights, governance etc. Are you serious

you told me to look at Ethiopia instead of America, that's what I did...

now you are telling me to look at America

I though we all at least agreed that we would NOT look at America, because for a variety of reasons they have such a pandoras box of craziness around firearms that none of us want to follow their example ?