Thread: Shotgun shooting like a solid round?

Originally Posted by Skeetshooter

Maybe more to do with a loose rib, sort of like a tuning fork?

It could well be
I fired my mates gun and the pinging noise was sort of like a short tubular bell sound, hollow and metallic if that makes sense

It had a helluva kick so I only tried doing it once

The saloon ammo he used is claimed safe for BP only proofed guns. Take the forewood off, hold the gun vertically by the barrel and twist sides to side rapidly, if it "clunks" she's not licking up tight and that's the funny noise on firing. Retire it either as a wall hanger or tomato stakes, you can get 2 by unsoldering the barrels which makes it a much better option than a 303 for that purpose.

Originally Posted by muzza

I would strongly advise against shooting any - and I mean ANY - modern or nitro ammo out of a damascus twist barrel. One day it is going to blow the barrel apart. Might not be today , might not be tomorrow - but it will blow the barrel apart and someone will get hurt.

Turn it into a wall hanger and save yourself the grief that is surely coming your way.

This cowboy ammo has very low chamber pressure, ive looked into this heavily before using. I have been told by the supplier that lots of people, particuarly those into cowboy action shooting use this ammo in damascus guns.
The pressure of these rounds is under 6000PSI, which is typical of a black powder round of its day.
I have looked into the deal with Damascus guns and there is alot of fear over them blowing apart, the condition of the barrel is more of the concern rather than the type of barrel. Personally I wouldnt use any heavy charge in a Damascus gun unless its nitro proofed, and I still would go for a lighter than normal load. Ideally I would like to hand load custom ammo for these older guns, but powder is limited.
The person who sold it to me said he was using it on the range with plack powder charges which were probably a heavier load than these cowboy loads.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Any photos of the target

I will be able to get some photos this weekend when im back out where I was shooting.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

even my old eyes can see those muzzles are no longer still round...... must be rather a hard life and soft barrel steel.... yip that dimascis so only VERY limited,very light loads...... wallhanger isnt such a silly idea.

Ive got an even older belgian gun with barrels in even worse condition with out of round muzzles and shoots perfect, the gunsmith told me it was safe to shoot with light loads and this thing had real tight chokes on it too. Its a shame its such an old gun, because if it was not in such bad shape, I would use the thing over my modern shotgun any day, it patterns beautifully, but I only use it to shoot clays with cowboy loads.
So the question is why these two guns perform so wildly different. Im wondering if the choke has something to do with it?
I will take some measurements with my calipers.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

also...look at muzzle end photo..the rib is coming adrift from barrel 4;00 from bead...and there is tiny cavity showing also 5;30ish suggesting there maybe not such a good hold going on perhaps???
that photo alone would have me VERY reluctant to fire it......
but still havent seen this taget with one hole in it.
and the bore needs a clean.

I only fired it because I trusted the seller was truthful when he said to me he had fired it days prior, it was clear there was remains of fibres from the wads inside the barrel from him using it. I have since cleaned it.
Now anyway, I know the gun is not in top notch condition, I knew this before i bought it since it was so stupidly cheap not to take it. I was really just curious to why the loads were punching such a clean hole in the board.
I think trying different ammo is not a bad idea, yes i know its really getting into wallhanger territory, i probably wont be using it alot, I still want to find a decent hammer gun thats more suitable for modern ammo.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

The saloon ammo he used is claimed safe for BP only proofed guns. Take the forewood off, hold the gun vertically by the barrel and twist sides to side rapidly, if it "clunks" she's not licking up tight and that's the funny noise on firing. Retire it either as a wall hanger or tomato stakes, you can get 2 by unsoldering the barrels which makes it a much better option than a 303 for that purpose.

Yes thats correct, that saloon ammo is completley safe in these guns. Ive also got some winchester AA featherlite which is a similar powered load at 5800PSI.
It does have a sloppy action, but so does my other old belgian gun and doesnt make the same sound.

i have in my safe an1861 a&wcarthy dunedin sxs which was purchased in CIRCA 1862when my late grandfatherx3 a arrived from aussie onto the otago goldfields. my late and much loved father confiscated off my cousin in approx 1963 when he caughrt him using smokeles ammo in it .it is a clan treasure(and amongst some hotly contested) .my late g /grandad affixed a brass lions head to the pistol grip and 2x westocast gold nuggets inst into the french walnut fore end.damscus barels both having severe adolescent acne(put politely)and an action looser than a boogie st she boy plus tow broken firing pins -Ive removed thoser and it wil NEVER ever have a live cartridge loaded againl.Im aware a cousin also has a double hammer gun or the same era ,like another who possesse a handloading device for ?said guns

now my good sir..you have mentioned this clan treasure before....I suggest it is far past time it appears in the wood n blue thread if not here....

If and when i can get lazy a into g and persuade daughter to get a set of good photos i will satisfy you craving!

An old Midland gun of fairly average quality when new. The slightly out of round muzzle would not make any significant difference to the pattern but the gun is not safe with nitro loads although the cowboy loads are probably OK in twist steel barrels of good manufacture and good condition. Sadly, your gun does not meet that threshold on either count and is better kept as a memento.

Originally Posted by gundoc

An old Midland gun of fairly average quality when new. The slightly out of round muzzle would not make any significant difference to the pattern but the gun is not safe with nitro loads although the cowboy loads are probably OK in twist steel barrels of good manufacture and good condition. Sadly, your gun does not meet that threshold on either count and is better kept as a memento.

I knew that when I bought the thing, but anyway im really just curious to what is going on to shoot with no apparent spread.
I will get some photos tomorrow of the target.

Here is the photo as promised.
There are holes here from a .22 and 30cal and the pellet holes were from several shots taken back 30+m away.
The large holes were what I was getting with little to no pellets visible.

That's wads

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Yep wads, there seem to be quite a lot if pellet holes too. Saloon has 1/2 an ounce of no 7s so the pellet holes will only be 1/10 of an inch half

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Yep wads, there seem to be quite a lot if pellet holes too. Saloon has 1/2 an ounce of no 7s so the pellet holes will only be 1/10 of an inch half

22 grm, half an oz is 14 grm,

Originally Posted by Skeetshooter

22 grm, half an oz is 14 grm,

I stand corrected

I tried it again over the weekend with a new box of ammo and no issues this time.
Pattern appears real good. Didn't seem to notice the ringing sound either, but likely was the loose rib it has.
Will try it out on some clays when I get a chance.