Thread: What do you think and where do I stand?

Originally Posted by screamO

Just sounds like another blown out of proportion gun related over reaction. Shit they had an armed offenders call out a while back in nelson because someone heard gun shots, ended up being fireworks

So I guess you'd be ok with an unknown person discharging firearms at or near your house, maybe when your kids are running around the garden... ?

Rather safe than sorry mate, could just as well have been Aramoana v2, all it takes is one nut job with a gun...

Originally Posted by ebf

So I guess you'd be ok with an unknown person discharging firearms at or near your house, maybe when your kids are running around the garden... ?

Rather safe than sorry mate, could just as well have been Aramoana v2, all it takes is one nut job with a gun...

I thinks it more that a lot of the people that report this stuff have never even heard a gun shot. I'm amazed more people don't report the bird scarers when they go off.
There is also a major difference between at your house or near your house, but I get your point. Maybe the OP and associates should have gone and seen the neighbour before having a shoot up, maybe the police could have used a different approach (I'm just guessing because I don't know the whole story), maybe the neighbour could have made contact with them.
You can also be out tramping with your kids and people can be discharging firearms and not know where they are, and this seems to be acceptable because your in a DOC area where hunting is allowed but then you cant go and discharge your firearms on your own property without people kicking up a stink. I think this is where the firearms laws leave them selves open to interpretation? When I get my DOC hunting permits it tells you things like how far from a hut or a track you have to be before you can start shooting, why can't anybody tell me what the distance is away from a house?
I agree with what your saying but there are so many different scenarios.
If I'm shooting safely on my property I think people should mind there own f##kin business. People think of guns as being these dangers killing machines and they are all out there to kill someone or rob a bank but how many people have been intentionally killed with firearms in NZ compared to all the stabbings and bashings that go on.
I'm sure these (some) people that are ringing the cops saying they have been frightened and scared within there own home because the neighbour was out shooting, also let people leave there own home after drinking without thinking about the risk they pose to everyone else on the road.

How do people know that you are shooting safely on your property?

Why should people assume that you are being safe when they don't actually know? What would you suggest that the person do if not call the police - jump the fence onto your property and come over to see if everythings OK?

If somebody entered your property and was shooting on it unlawfully, would you be happy that the neighbours rang the police then? If that person was shooting at you maybe?

How would you expect them to know the difference if the shooting was not advised or was infrequent or uncommon?

The difference between bird scarers and rifle shots is that bird scarers can't kill anybody... bird scarers are not infrequent or uncommon and people expect to hear them in areas around orchards etc..

You may find less people report gun shots when there are bird scarers around...

Frankly.. you maybe would fit better in a less complex world, lower population density, less mass shootings, a lower urban and a rural population familiar with a simpler time. Or maybe you could adjust, and start being more cognisant of the time that you now live in... or just keep on shooting without thinking about the issues and see how long you get to keep your firearms for?

Like I said there are many different scenarios, as you have just pointed out.
I have discussed with the local Arms officer about shooting at my own place and also asked him if I should ring the local police before I do any shooting incase there where any reports / complaints to try and avoid any possible confusion, plus I think I would shit myself if all the boys in black where to turn up pointing guns at me.......I was advised it was not necessary. I thought it was a great idea and easy.
I think you might have read a bit more into my post than what I was trying to say but I do agree with your points made........and yes your properly spot on with the "you maybe would fit better in a less complex world, lower population density, less mass shootings, a lower urban and a rural population familiar with a simpler time"

Originally Posted by Sidney

Why should people assume that you are being safe when they don't actually know?

Why should people assume otherwise?

Sounds like the responding officers were extremely pissed that they got called out to reported gunshots to find it was a bunch of people shooting clays, then acted accordingly. Lol at the "secure lock up in a vehicle". Where is that even in the arms act? What a cunt of situation. I hope you get everything back.

Originally Posted by Banana

Why should people assume otherwise?

Given the number of accidental shootings and accidental discharges in New Zealand, I'd say it's a fair call to say "Why should people assume that you are being safe when they don't actually know?"

I consider firearms safety to car driving - everyone think they're awesome and everyone else is at fault.

As to the OP, get a lawyer. Don't rely on internet advice.

Originally Posted by Banana

Why should people assume otherwise?

They shouldn't, they should get it checked...

Originally Posted by Kscott

Given the number of accidental shootings and accidental discharges in New Zealand, I'd say it's a fair call to say "Why should people assume that you are being safe when they don't actually know?"

I consider firearms safety to car driving - everyone think they're awesome and everyone else is at fault.

As to the OP, get a lawyer. Don't rely on internet advice.

The really very low number of accidental shootings? Whats the average, 2-3 per year? Most of which are people failing to identify their target in the bush.

By that logic we should call the police whenever we see a car driving down the road, just in case it does something dangerous. And there are an awful lot of drownings (far more than shootings), so we better call the coastguard or SAR every time we see someone in the water. And from memory its skiing/snowboarding that has the highest sports accident rate, so when we see someone heading up to a skifield we should call an ambulance too right?

Hey, if calling AOS for some fireworks is justified I should call the cops because the neighbour mowing his lawn sounds a bit like it might be a speeding car. Won't somebody think of the children!

That aside, I definitely agree that the OP should get a lawyer.

Originally Posted by ebf

So I guess you'd be ok with an unknown person discharging firearms at or near your house, maybe when your kids are running around the garden... ?

Rather safe than sorry mate, could just as well have been Aramoana v2, all it takes is one nut job with a gun...

Media style fear-mongering doesn't help anyone though does it? After a while 'rather safe than sorry' can become more of a 'boy who cried wolf' situation, the police might not bother turning up if the fireworks false alarm person calls them again.

Police responses seem to vary a lot between areas too, I remember there was a case a couple of years ago in Waihola where a bloke called the police to tell them someone was taking pot shots at his fence/garage/house (newspaper had photos of the bullet holes) and they didn't even send a car out from Dunedin because it was saturday night and they were too busy scraping up drunk students and giving tickets to boyracers.

Somewhere in between wild over-reaction and uninterested non-response is a sensible medium ground, where we hope they are most of time.

By some of the logic here just about every duck shooter should be inspected this season, every parent who's kid has a bruise should be reported to cyfs and evey person who drives should be inspected on suspicion of being drunk, all because we don't know for sure so we should assume the worst and call the police constantly, ffs really! This is getting out of hand!

Prick of a situation.

I would tell my neighbours if I was going to be shooting clays (or anything) within hearing distance. If there was going to be a lot of gunfire for example.

If I owned a farm i'd guess neighbouring farms would be used to the odd shot, but i'd probably still let them know when I first met them that they might hear the odd shot and it'd just be me picking off rabbits/hares/etc.

If they weren't receptive to it or asked that I not do it and I considered my property to be more than large enough for it to be safe....well. I'm not sure what i'd do in that situation. However I do think you have to give them the knowledge first of what you're doing. That immediately cuts down whatever assumptions they'll make when hearing shots. And you can also honestly tell the cops that you had warned the neighbours or discussed it with them. That alone would go a long way i'd think.

Imagine you're inside having a cup of tea and your kids are outside playing. In one scenario the neighbour has told you that him and some mates will be shooting clay pigeons, but aiming directly away from your house. In the other scenario, you just suddenly start hearing gun shots. Which situation is going to go better for the neighbour do you think ?

I can understand why the cops aren't receptive to you calling and letting them know you will be shooting. You're thinking it'll mean they can ignore complaints or something like that. Look at it from a more sinister point of view though. Imagine if you were going to shoot the place up and purposefully told the cops you were going to be clay shooting, just to try and delay their response time. They have to consider things like that.

Originally Posted by MattyP

Imagine you're inside having a cup of tea and your kids are outside playing. In one scenario the neighbour has told you that him and some mates will be shooting clay pigeons, but aiming directly away from your house. In the other scenario, you just suddenly start hearing gun shots. Which situation is going to go better for the neighbour do you think ?

In any situation when in a rural area why would you think that's there's something wrong when hearing gunshots?
I can certainly understand if you lived in town, but when in a rural area ask yourself, is this really something I shouldn't be expecting where I am?

Originally Posted by Jexla

In any situation when in a rural area why would you think that's there's something wrong when hearing gunshots?
I can certainly understand if you lived in town, but when in a rural area ask yourself, is this really something I shouldn't be expecting where I am?

Well it's hard for me to be objective having never lived in a rural area - im a city dweller. But perhaps hearing the odd rifle shot is normal, but hearing a whole heap in rapid succession (people getting carried away with clays) may be a bit different? I don't know. It could just annoy you not being told, and that's enough.

Either way I just wouldn't want to risk the drama and would have let the neighbours know. Right or wrong, this whole thread is an example of what can happen if you do just risk it.

Originally Posted by MattyP

Well it's hard for me to be objective having never lived in a rural area - im a city dweller. But perhaps hearing the odd rifle shot is normal, but hearing a whole heap in rapid succession (people getting carried away with clays) may be a bit different? I don't know. It could just annoy you not being told, and that's enough.

Either way I just wouldn't want to risk the drama and would have let the neighbours know. Right or wrong, this whole thread is an example of what can happen if you do just risk it.

I agree about reducing the risk, but fuck me are some people precious.