Thread: Article

I've witnessed many mutts turn to shit when out of sight of their owners,I'm talking dog packs, 6-7 potlickers taught to find,flush,chase,catch or kill.
These dogs were well aware of that old saying, Out of sight out of mind.
Back with the Alpha male, (the owner) they would come across as being bloody saints.
There were no such things as an electric collar back then.If there was such a thing many a mutt would have been introduced to it's feel just for starters.
These mutts were not into the sit,heel,stay etc. They were not meant to be trained as such,but they knew well what NO meant but regardless of that they were unpredictable. Guess you wouldn't see many of these packs today.
Interesting thread all the same.

That's a bit like saying you should never miss a shot Tussock.

Originally Posted by Tussock;80397[COLOR="#FF0000"

]Dogs will is somewhat irrelevant. What people call willfulness is just a cop out for poor training. Personality for bad behavior etc etc.

Dog should do what it's told, or it's not trained at all. [/COLOR]

The whole "let it be a puppy" thing is a fallacy. Pups thrive on rules and boundaries. If you just let them run riot as most people advise, it just turns into an uncontrolable nutcase.

Never let it get excited at all, and you end up with a calm bidable dog. Pups in the wild don't run rampant and get wound up all the time. They are enveloped in rules and boundaries.

that just text book bullshit--more than happy for you to show me a constantly perfect dog that does as its told always --if not it's not trained at all as you put it.Don't throw unachievable s out there or youll be very let down and mocked

Originally Posted by Tussock

The whole "let it be a puppy" thing is a fallacy. Pups thrive on rules and boundaries. If you just let them run riot as most people advise, it just turns into an uncontrolable nutcase.

Never let it get excited at all, and you end up with a calm bidable dog. Pups in the wild don't run rampant and get wound up all the time. They are enveloped in rules and boundaries.

They can be a puppy and still have rules Tussock.

Originally Posted by Tussock

So to summarize, reading books is pointless and you will learn nothing from "text book bullshit", dogs by nature are willfully disobedient and dishonest, the answer to this is a regular hiding or choking to show him who's boss.

Thats not that anyone said here Tussock.

I am a mere novice; I learn by reading too. But I learn even more from seeing people doing it - as they say, proof is in the pudding. I am lucky enough to have a couple of people I would consider mentors who have been, or still are at the top of their game. Having read your recent posts, where is this coming from? Is this quoting someone else, or have you come these conclusions after of trial and error? How many dogs have you trained to completion to do a complex task like gundog work successfully? And perhaps, more importantly, how many have you buggered up?

Originally Posted by Tussock

dogs by nature are willfully disobedient and dishonest,

Don't believe anyone has said that, but good ones are driven and it's steering that drive in the right way. Although I have run into the odd one that can be dishonest...

Tussock , I am going to write a book for you to believe -it will say trained dogs screw up all the time as well and only in the land of hansell and gretal and the candy house do they all run like a swiss clock --at least then you wont be at odds with what most of us tht run hunting dogs have observed .
Most of us are part time trainers , we cannot and do not put many hours per day in as would a young police dog might get .With what we have we work with and I walk and whistle command my dog everyday -he is still willful and needs threats of chastisement to act fast to command -at times .I cooked my ex wife a big breakfast today and left the dog at the door looking at us eat..With a sausage left over I called him in and fed him and then "outya go " he understood perfectly and trotted almost out-went to sit on the carpet at the door until I casually took from my pocket his Ecollar trigger -didn't need to use it and he moved outside with haste.
All training is good and you may do it right but your dog still may want to do something else "sometimes"

Originally Posted by el borracho

Tussock , I am going to write a book for you to believe -it will say trained dogs screw up all the time as well and only in the land of hansell and gretal and the candy house do they all run like a swiss clock --at least then you wont be at odds with what most of us tht run hunting dogs have observed .
Most of us are part time trainers , we cannot and do not put many hours per day in as would a young police dog might get .With what we have we work with and I walk and whistle command my dog everyday -he is still willful and needs threats of chastisement to act fast to command -at times .I cooked my ex wife a big breakfast today and left the dog at the door looking at us eat..With a sausage left over I called him in and fed him and then "outya go " he understood perfectly and trotted almost out-went to sit on the carpet at the door until I casually took from my pocket his Ecollar trigger -didn't need to use it and he moved outside with haste.
All training is good and you may do it right but your dog still may want to do something else "sometimes"

Goodness me, El B, is that intimidation or what...I do not want a dog to behave like a beaten cur or to piddle in an anxiety attack everytime I open their kennel door...I want my dogs to be happy rounded natures who are permitted to exercise the wonderful prey drive they have and to be my companions and hunting partners...and I would be the first to admit that my dogs have taught me more about hunting and their breed capabilities and expertise than ANY GODDAM BOOK EVER WRITTEN or about to be penned...

Originally Posted by Tussock

Never let it get excited at all, and you end up with a calm bidable dog.

That's a great way to raise a really boring dog.

If that's what you're after then great. Raising completely obedient dogs is easy. Raising completely obedient dogs that run hard and range wide with great drive and style is the hard part. What you are suggesting will get the first part which is probably what you're after and good for you. I'm after the 2nd part as are several other people here.

Originally Posted by RCGSP

That's a great way to raise a really boring dog.

If that's what you're after then great. Raising completely obedient dogs is easy. Raising completely obedient dogs that run hard and range wide with great drive and style is the hard part. What you are suggesting will get the first part which is probably what you're after and good for you. I'm after the 2nd part as are several other people here.

I am not sure how you would achieve that...but I am sure some people misinterpretate actions led through prey drive as disobedience...and I know that for other HPR breed owners, the way the EB works can seem like a total mess..the end result is the same, it just may not look as pretty and graceful as the work of the Setter or Pointer...

Originally Posted by EeeBees

Goodness me, El B, is that intimidation or what...I do not want a dog to behave like a beaten cur or to piddle in an anxiety attack everytime I open their kennel door...I want my dogs to be happy rounded natures who are permitted to exercise the wonderful prey drive they have and to be my companions and hunting partners...and I would be the first to admit that my dogs have taught me more about hunting and their breed capabilities and expertise than ANY GODDAM BOOK EVER WRITTEN or about to be penned...

EeeBees;i dont get your drift ,in fact often I dont as its like reading the news-mole hill turns to mountain.please read with "understanding''

Originally Posted by el borracho

EeeBees;i dont get your drift ,in fact often I dont as its like reading the news-mole hill turns to mountain.please read with "understanding''

I beg your pardon?!!! if you only need to show your dog the switch mechanism of an e-collar and he does an instanteous rendition of Pavlov's bell response, then cripes...what have you done to him????


Please let me know if this makes sense...

[QUOTE=EeeBees;80511]I beg your pardon?!!! if you only need to show your dog the switch mechanism of an e-collar and he does an instanteous rendition of Pavlov's bell response, then cripes...what have you done to him????


Please let me know if this makes sense...[/QUOTE

my dog is smart - he has eyes and a brain and discern what the pack leader has in his hand -pretty simple .Your veiw is still so like the media MOLE HILL TO MOUNTAIN -just because my dog recognizes something makes him abused it appears in your opinion .take a chillax pill

That's a better explanation el b

No El B, I just think your response to the dog was a bit over the top, actually...but hey, I am just a peasant who knows jack nothing about dogs...there you go...are you happy with that...


oh and about this pack leader bollocks...get this...him DOG you HUMAN...there is no pack in it...when people put themselves up as the pack leader or Alpha male/female you put yourself at DOG level...and we HUMANS are not DOGS...well, I am probably being a bit of bitch right now, but I am going in a minute or two to take my DOGS to the river for a swim...