Thread: Fat Labs

They are fat labradors, I show ours my husband hunts them I would not want one like that in my kennels, the dogs need to be fit for purpose, I think the problem is for some bigger is better, more bone , more substance ( fat ) more coat, completely incorrect, and I lay the blame squarely on the judges, they put these dogs up so some breeders will breed for what the judge is placing. Not all show labradors look like that in fact very few in NZ do.

You got that right EeeBee

It's funny you say that EBs, I'd like to ask a question as I know nothing of shows having attended one (and plan to keep it at that number).. I was at the petrol station the other day and the lady let a Brittany out to pee in the park opposite. She was on the way to a show or some such in Gisborne and we got talking about brittanies. It appears her one was a show champion, which even with my untrained eye was a pretty poor example. Certainly not the continental-type Breton I'm used to seeing.. Anyway, I'd imagine turning up with a minority breed would make for easy bench wins wouldn't it? How can you compare dogs if its the only one there?

Yes, with a minority breed it is easy to get the 8 challenge points. But the dog should be a reasonable example of its breed. Unfortunately very few judges are brave enough to refuse to give the dog a challenge point.

Good question @Pointer...well, they are SUPPOSED to judge to the breed standard!!!...as in, does this example meet the tenets of the breed standard more/less than the next, and so on...the difficulty for judges in this country is that the exhibits are either what some call NZ Brittanys or American type...the majority of Brittanys here are a mix of both types...so when you show an EB, most judges will not know what they are looking at...so to be fair to them, I guess you can sort of understand why a judge would not give my male a challenge...simply because the dog just does not look like anything the judge had seen before...but back to the subject!!!! A minority breed in my experience is rarely ever put up in the group line up...I feel that it is because some judges possibly feel that it is probably better to take the safe option, even if in their mind and hearts the minority breed animal is superior and is truly correct to the breed standards. Then there was that incident in Sydney...when an European judge disqualified every Brittany in the ring because none were correct to standard...he told my spaniel friend, well that is that, I will never be asked to judge here again!!

yes Judges should judge to the breed standard, but they all interpret the standard differently, in the Case of the Labrador breed Standard in the first 3 lines of general appearance in every standard I have read, NZ Aust, UK, FCI, Swedish etc, the word Broad is used 3 times, for example The UK general appearance says "Strongly built, short coupled, very active; broad in skull; broad and deep through chest and ribs; broad and strong over loins and hindquarters. " Now while the fat Labradors are FAT, and don't adhere to the standard I don't think many of the "field Labradors" would meet the Breed Standard either. I do think a Labrador should be capable of doing both show and hunting and that is the problem, MOST show dogs will hunt but very few ( if any) field type Labradors would do OK in the ring.If I can work out how to post photos I will post a couple of "show" Labradors out hunting

These were taken while out hunting, unfortunately my husband hates me going hunting with him because I take the camera and like to slow the action down to get photos, these are all working dogs but are also all show Champions, one bred in NZ the other two Europe.

the division between a working lab and a show example is best explained by talking about two standards, rather than just the one.
both types are more than capable enough to suit the average kiwi duck shooter, picking up a few dozen ducks a year and pushing out the odd rooster, quail or rabbit is not rocket science in canine terms.... up the working environment, like driven shoots 2-3 times a week and you will see why the split is there, putting a show title on any dog is a sport in it's own right, and there are many breeders with a foot in both camps.

Originally Posted by kawhia

the division between a working lab and a show example is best explained by talking about two standards, rather than just the one.
both types are more than capable enough to suit the average kiwi duck shooter, picking up a few dozen ducks a year and pushing out the odd rooster, quail or rabbit is not rocket science in canine terms.... up the working environment, like driven shoots 2-3 times a week and you will see why the split is there, putting a show title on any dog is a sport in it's own right, and there are many breeders with a foot in both camps.

You are correct, but to me there should not be 2 standards, both camps ( Show and Hunting) need to up their game and breed to as close as possible to the one standard, I guess it is also a question of what you want from your dogs, do you want a dog that never stops, never has much down time is always ready for action 12 months of the year full on 100% of the time, one that would go completely insane if left in a kennel for a couple of days ( not that I am advocating this) because of work commitments etc etc etc, or do you want one that will retrieve all the birds you shoot, track a deer/pig etc not use the kids as skittles, is quite happy to go hunting as often as you want to go but is equally just as happy to spend time with the family if unable to get out for a hunt, one is much easier to live with, having said all that most of my pups go to hunters, god forbid some are even trialing. As for driven hunts our son used his dog on these hunts completely show bred, again my argument ( if you call it that) is while his dog could work these hunt's every week he would have been equally at home in the show ring, this to me is the mark of a true Labrador .

As an addend to the above...I am not knocking the show people per se...it is simply that if you do have a minority breed, you will have to accept that most judges will not be familiar with your minority breed, or go to shows where there are European judges who do know...

or better still go to a versatile test where your dog is benched by the same 3 judges who just watched it work.
had the show question bought up again for my dogs, that was the answer i gave.

i think you are able to test under the jghv format tori, includes breed show.

1hotdog

How come Bernies dog doesn't fall and hit the ceiling?

Labs were developed to sit quiet and retrieve, their body shape and coat and fat tail is all part of keeping warm in the water. The big round ribs give the body shape. They are not for work as spaniels and pointers. In the show ring many are just over weight because the owner thinks fat is substance, which it is not. The judges many are not gundog owners, or if they are just show gundog owners, they see the same type of dog in front of them over and over and think this must be the right type. They do have to sit exams which involve bone structure of a dog, terminology and questions on the standards of the group they are sitting and finally an exam where they must judge dogs and place them in order and give reasons why they did so to the examiners. Still, they might be a toy or utility breed person who wants another group so when they judge gundogs it is not what they really hold an interest in. Shows are a competition and the judge gets 1-2min to evaluate each dog, so a good breeder should be doing their own evaluations and not relying on what a judge puts up at a show. Same with field trials. You can see good and average but meeting the dogs that can be reversed.

on any driven shoot, they have limited time to sweep the end of the drive and collect runners as well as working behind the guns during the drive, as well as picking up driven duck, and for some working on the moors behind the pointers, in part they are required to sit at heel but a full day 2-3 times a week plus being used in the beating line the dogs end up looking like greyhounds.... as they do even being used weekly for upland and waterfowl work by keen shooters.