Thread: Llewellin Setter breed

Originally Posted by levernt

Okrzyki

Still dont know wtf this means , English plse

Cheers

Cheers....Salute......Prost whichever you prefer

Cheers for that, post some pics of your setters

Welcome Levernt, we like setters here, put some pics up

I like your avater Jim, nearly as kool as mine

I find it curious how we must almost agonise over the trial systems in other countries...take the stubble quail trials in Australia...you simply cannot and never will have a comparable trial in this country...on another fora there are commentaries regarding the range of dogs and how some use the term 'woodcock dogs' for those dogs (Epagneul Breton) who work close...this term is almost used in a derogatory manner...but when hunting our riverbeds, the dog needs to be of the genre 'woodcock'...this to me is the joy of our gundogs, how with experience and exposure to his hunting environment he himself for the want of game will modify his range...any elitism is nonsensical dribble in my mind.

We have in this country what we have...we either make the most of what we have, or we man or girl up and import from lines that will enhance what is here or what is yet to be imported.

That tri-colour is beautiful...(in my view, and I know nothing of the breed!!)

Ms à Goes was a bit of a strange person. She had plenty of dogs from the original lines, but she lost every bit of feeling with the modern setter and pointer world. She kept her line pure, but was unable to compete against more modern dogs coming from Italy and France. I must say that I saw one extremely good shooting dog from her breeding.
She refused to cross any foreign blood into her dogs. Dr Guberti , the pope of Italian pointers, once said that there is a huge diffrence between breeding dogs and trial dogs.
His breeding stuff was pure linebred (inbred), but the trial stuff was always a first generation outcross. I tnink she also should have done a slight outcross on a few occasions to refresh the genes. Thans breeding these outcrosses back in the line.

Her kennel is still succeeded by her niece Sabine Van Zurpele and Monique Renard.

You are as far as I have read and spoke with a gentleman in Italy correct. I little more depth on the subject Sabine and a gentlem by the name of Mario work quite closely on the Italian Llewellins. As of recent though, they took some American Llewellin back into their stock via Lynhill Kennels. There might be an issue there though as Lynhill may have been caught up in the King English/llewellin setter debacle. Lynhill has made inroads with A Gos some years back and he imported her stock into the U.S.. he then bred to some American Llewelins and my dogs from Derry(Advie). Lynhill, Mario and Sabine to some extant are now interbreding these dogs with the pure Itallian Llewellins and the possible King English. I am not sure if they are in knnowledge of this fact and I have tried to discuss this with them, but will not oblige a conversation about this. I had attempted to contact Mario about his lines and rebreeding back to the Advie line but he had no interest. So whether that line has been tainted or not is not known for sure since they chose not to DNA match with mine.

That is how the Llewellin breeders work though, its sad really.

Originally Posted by Hales Smut

Ms à Goes was a bit of a strange person. She had plenty of dogs from the original lines, but she lost every bit of feeling with the modern setter and pointer world. She kept her line pure, but was unable to compete against more modern dogs coming from Italy and France. I must say that I saw one extremely good shooting dog from her breeding.
She refused to cross any foreign blood into her dogs. Dr Guberti , the pope of Italian pointers, once said that there is a huge diffrence between breeding dogs and trial dogs.
His breeding stuff was pure linebred (inbred), but the trial stuff was always a first generation outcross. I tnink she also should have done a slight outcross on a few occasions to refresh the genes. Thans breeding these outcrosses back in the line.

Her kennel is still succeeded by her niece Sabine Van Zurpele and Monique Renard.

Can you attest to my knowledge or have I been misled. You being as close as you are have you ever been in contact with Ms a Goes or her niece? I would like to hear more if you would have aby more knowledge. Especially if I am incorrect on any account.

Originally Posted by Hales Smut

Ms à Goes was a bit of a strange person. She had plenty of dogs from the original lines, but she lost every bit of feeling with the modern setter and pointer world. She kept her line pure, but was unable to compete against more modern dogs coming from Italy and France. I must say that I saw one extremely good shooting dog from her breeding.
She refused to cross any foreign blood into her dogs. Dr Guberti , the pope of Italian pointers, once said that there is a huge diffrence between breeding dogs and trial dogs.
His breeding stuff was pure linebred (inbred), but the trial stuff was always a first generation outcross. I tnink she also should have done a slight outcross on a few occasions to refresh the genes. Thans breeding these outcrosses back in the line.

Her kennel is still succeeded by her niece Sabine Van Zurpele and Monique Renard.

Iam sure both you and Hales can give a great insight into the Llewellin bred dogs and look forward to hearing more from both of you -many thanks

I don't know Sabine Van Zurpele in person. I am in spaniels myself. My mentor in spaniels is a personal friend of Sabine and through him I will try to have a look at her dogs and have a chat. I do know that the last 20/30 years none of their dogs proved anything in trials. I fully agree that trials are not everything, but it stays the only way to compare dogs in approx the same conditions. My mentor also was a strong believer in line(in)breeding (spaniels) as was Dr Guberti ( pointers) ,......... and many others. The only man who I know of, that was very succesfull with linebreeding was Robert Whele of Elhew fame. Most , just like my friend, ended with dogs wich where completely outdated and unable to compete with other breeders dogs.
As I am very keen myself to have a more profound idea how Sabine's dogs are bred, I'll try to keep you informed. This may take a few weeks, but I'll be back.

good words Hales and your efforts are appreciated !