Thread: My thoughts in Line Breeding.

Tussock, you know how people say "with all due respect" when they mean the opposite?

With all due respect, you are talking so much rubbish it is not worthy of response. I can, and have explained it for you. I cannot understand it for you. You are pushing a barrow that is incorrect, flawed and if implemented by anyone would lead to the demise of every breed that is coveted for its "type". If you just want a genetics raffle, go ahead forge your way forward, there are some of us that have done this long enough to not only know the truth, but have seen the truth by observing great breeding practices which have produced great dogs.... Your contention would lead to a world where there are only outcrossed mongrels, with no way of producing type fit for purpose and people just hoping to get lucky. You're a lost cause and have a bone in your grip you refuse to let go of even though very simple facts have been presented. I have said everything I need to say and have no intention of debating complete and utter bullshit with you.

You have made a valiant attempt, I give you that, at debunking absolute fact with conjecture, but you have failed. Just buy a mongrel next time, stay away from deformed breeds developed by people who don't give a shit about function and don't blame the people breeding for function for the sins of the people who developed the breed you love so much and totally fucked it up.

I will ask one question... if line breeding doesn;t produce type and I am wrong about the pitbull, does that mean every pitbull bred is an English TerrierXBulldog, or did they, at some point, start breeding the "type" they had created back to itself in order to establish a breed? Do I only need to get an English Terrier and a Bulldog now to make a pitbull or is there a bit more to it?

Originally Posted by Tussock

Having no genes does kill a dog eventually.

No genes...the poor critter would not exist without genetics...??

I don't think you have the slightest grasp of anything in this subject.

Originally Posted by Tussock

If you have 5000 dogs with the genetic diversity of 5 dogs and none have the genes, you have no dogs like the Irish had no potatoes.

The Irish had poor crops of potatoes due to blight...Phytophthora infestans...

Originally Posted by Tussock

This is your way of saying we have completely different definitions of the topic. You get what you want. You seem physically incapable of seeing anything outside of personal gain.

This is 1850s genetics. My generation will walk away from your "pure" breeds. Outcrosses to maintain genetic diversity ruins your "pure bred" marketing pitch. Considering population size would rule out most backyard operators.

There will likely be a modern campaign for genetic health in dogs that will include a modernization of methods.

this one is pure gold, what happened to your version of the uber dog ??????????? oh thats right didn't work out so rehomed wasn't it ?????
your generation of dog breeders is already here mate the growth of the mutt which even the nzkc is trying to cash in on, designer breeds and 'real' backyard fuck ups or get rich quick schemes and quirky named mistakes..... what happens when they run out of purebreds to use ? the likes of the spca and the vets do a great job of promoting de sexing it is quite possible the popular stud syndrone could even affect breeding mutts, mutts are not devoid of genetic health issues........ your so called modernization of methods may not grow as fast as the law changes regarding dog ownership types of breeds owned or breeding, and i can see a time when getting a permit to breed could be a reality, current changes wihin the purebred world are slow but the recent rules for breeding pedigree labradors are a step forward.
'your' generation is actually this generation don't kid yourself.

Originally Posted by Tussock

Did Kawhia no go to great lengths to communicate that the health of the American Bulldog was ruined by line breeding and lack of genetic diversity? When its my dog these methods are described as extremely destructive. Makes it hard to understand what you are doing beyond trying to "win".

actually i stated the american bulldog was in fact man made and the product of inbreeding/linebreeding, the fact it has major health issues is only a short term problem if someone loves the breed enough to start fixing the problems........it starts with that first step.

Often remedied in a single cross too which is the funny thing about all this talk of dead ends. It's only one cross away. I think he forgets we are talking performance animals here. Ask EBs how much setter the French put into the Brittany in modern times, or ask Robyn Gaskin where the light orange coat comes from in the working Irish setter. My own dogs have very recent relatives with fluffy ears and tails. Do I give a shit about this fallacy of purity? As long as they keep performing the way they do, not at all!

i think tussock gets some perverse pleasure out of winding forum members up. you ' don't read old dog breeding books' but you read scientific journals? tussock you try too hard, widen your mind. that quote you gave,the whole idea of a dog breed is to restrict genetic diversity, otherwise we would all have dingo like dogs. to provide such a quote, from a so called scientific journal,long windedly stating the obvious,makes me conclude there is a fair bit of vacant space somewhere.

Originally Posted by Tussock

"this one is pure gold, what happened to your version of the uber dog ??????????? oh thats right didn't work out so rehomed wasn't it ?????"

You seem to only ever see what you want to see. I'm sure this helps with your breeding, can't go wrong.

so did you pass the dog on or not ?
@the time of that particular thread you had the same blind them with bullshit approach, i do like to see the outcome even if it is a few years down the track as it may educate me with something i can use or another line of proven thought backed up by actual proof....... it's how the really uneducated like myself learn.
personally i will continue to get my schooling by a alot of the new and lessons learned from the past.

C'mon Kawhia, the missus ruined it

Originally Posted by kawhia

so did you pass the dog on or not ?
@the time of that particular thread you had the same blind them with bullshit approach,t do like to see the outcome even if it is a few years down the track as it may educate me with something i can use or another line of proven thought backed up by actual proof....... it's how the really uneducated like myself learn.
personally i will continue to get my schooling by a alot of the new and lessons learned from the past.

1
lesson one from the past.
if you cant dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with bullshit .:
comparing linebreeding or inbreeding to incest is like comparing invetro fertilisation in humans to ai in cattle.