Thread: Versatile hunting dog test

Originally Posted by el borracho

sounds pretty much like what we would do at a Sunday training day with a young dog with the GSP club if one so desired

Tell a Frenchman that his Epagneul Breton being evaluated in a TAN is comparable to a Sunday training day and he might just rip your arms off...

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Get a hold of Margaret Cotton via the website posted already KB, she is after somewhere to hold one up north.

Yes, I will, thank you.

Originally Posted by gqhoon

This thread was started by someone who genuinely (I believe) wanted to know more about the VHDTA system, and what it means to test Natural Ability. Unfortunately it has been turned into a farce by those who have never tested in it, or even observed it for that matter, and clearly have little understanding of it.

As for the inuendo about why some choose Testing over competative Trials, I suggest you look a little harder at those of us who do Test, as some of us have also Trialled and have acquitted ourselves quite well.

Like everything that doesn't apply to all... Yes GQ there are some very good folks involved but we have to assume when these things are not getting support that the systems may need some tweaking... I think there is merit in the Versatile testing... but it seems to be getting nowhere, even with some solid support from a handful... so why? I think taking the format to a higher level as available overseas will help... keeping it relevant to hunting even more so... there is no lack of interest in dogs and hunting, but a massive decline in people getting involved with trials, tests and testing... we maybe just need to work on this a bit more.

You work on it quite well, don't you Ruff. Keep up the good work, I am sure there are a number of people who read the two NZ forums who will never set foot in a trial or test because of the put downs they read on these forums, and they probably think the clubs are full of such people too.

In the early 70's about the time the Nth American Versatile Hunting Dog Assn was formed, Geoff Sutherland formed a similar club in NZ, The NZ Versatile Hunting Dog Assn. It ran for maybe 3 years then suddenly gone. Geoff told me only a few years ago that a friend travelling back from a test in a vehicle listened to a few of the members plotting to get rid of Geoff, take over the Assn and run things their way. So he walked away and that was that. A potentially great idea back in the days of plentiful hunting opportunities, ruined.

I am glad a few spoke up here because few do. I mean, who wants to leave themselves open for personal attacks? But until the genuine gundog folk do stand up and say ENOUGH, then this continuous running down of clubs, testing and can only have a very detrimental outcome for the gundog world in NZ.

There is running down and then there is the reality of where things are at , you cannot worry about weak minded people who lack enough passion to be envolved because theyre easily offended by what they read. Both testing and trial communities show themselves to be a excellent bunch who fall over themselves to be helpful. Ruffs comments may srtike a off note with some but you dont have to agree and just read on - it is a forum and ideas are expressed.there are many non trialers and standard testers that like to cast there negative veiws on trialing because they lack the passion or balls to show themselves in a public light --to me theyre a problem not someone educated in dog things like ruff

My problem wasn't Ruffs view. Essentially he is right, for the club to grow the testing has to develop more, but lets face it, the testing crowd know that, I'm sure they will sort it. I feel the largest gains are in the NA tests are entry level stuff, and that's why breeders should push it, in the way Jake Overton with the Ceska Fouska does, it is a useful breeding tool for a breed that wont suit P&S trials.

My issue was comments from yourself, an active triallist, who should be promoting the sport, not portraying it in a bad light by alienating hunters with pompous comments. They are the people you should be recruiting, hunters are the future of dog trials. Without hunters input, it becomes an irrelevant circus.

Pointer my blunt manner may cause offense -very true but my point hasn't altered from what you can read here .I certainly challenge others and that can cause some to get their back ups but I certainly could be more diplomatic and more eloquent in my comments so as to encourage rather than alienate and stop going after those soft baits when I see them dangling in front of me .

You clearly don't get it. It has nothing to do your blunt manner. It is to do with your elitist comments that suggests Trials are better than Tests (on the grounds that to not compete is just "too commie") and that Trialists are somehow better than everyone else. As I said perviously, you've done more to put people of Trialling than you could ever comprehend.

my comments there GQHOON are tests just leave all equal if they score the same -trials over time show the better dog working against another and I don't apologize for that as it is my firm belief .As for putting people off trials -I doubt that and that is a huggeeeeeeeeeee exaggeration on your behalf --so we might see 21 people come this year to the trials instead of 22 --gets it in perspective really doesn't it
Understand though I support testing !!!!

Originally Posted by el borracho

my comments there GQHOON are tests just leave all equal if they score the same -trials over time show the better dog working against another and I don't apologize for that as it is my firm belief.

If that is your firm belief, then you know nothing of the Testing system available here.

Originally Posted by el borracho

As for putting people off trials -I doubt that and that is a huggeeeeeeeeeee exaggeration on your behalf --so we might see 21 people come this year to the trials instead of 22 --gets it in perspective really doesn't it

So it is acceptable to lose even one from what is already a diminishing pool to draw from. I don't share the same view.

If I was to act on the basis of what I have read here, and in other places, I wouldn't cross the road to attend or watch a gun dog trial. Ever.
However, I am wise enough to know that forums attract zealots, key board experts, and the mentally unstable. And me.

I'm sure that ordinary non forum people attend and participate in trials, and that they are no doubt in the majority. So I might chance my arm one day and go and watch one.

The VHD testing sounds admirable. I will go to one of those one day too. Their people on here sound slightly more rational than the trialists. Maybe that is because they do not have their own egos to defend, only that of their dogs?

Its the new trialists that Mitch is talking about Brian, not the same 22 people that go no matter what. No one here has a problem with your enthusiasm for trialling but its your negative comments about people who dont trial

Originally Posted by Tahr

If I was to act on the basis of what I have read here, and in other places, I wouldn't cross the road to attend or watch a gun dog trial. Ever.
However, I am wise enough to know that forums attract zealots, key board experts, and the mentally unstable. And me.

I'm sure that ordinary non forum people attend and participate in trials, and that they are no doubt in the majority. So I might chance my arm one day and go and watch one.

The VHD testing sounds admirable. I will go to one of those one day too. Their people on here sound slightly more rational than the trialists. Maybe that is because they do not have their own egos to defend, only that of their dogs?

there is always a little ego to defend when you compete but it is all fun and no one goes home in tears -at least not me , I can still have a laugh at myself

Originally Posted by upnorth uplander

Its the new trialists that Mitch is talking about Brian, not the same 22 people that go no matter what. No one here has a problem with your enthusiasm for trialling but its your negative comments about people who dont trial

it goes alittle with the territory Z -some feel aggrieved if not agreed with --Im no different than them but have a different view but at the end of the day we should be promoting the trials more --but this is where the problem start cannot please everybody .Spkeaking of Z when you going to put a foot back into the trial pond ? you got your pointer and spaniels eh.I would really like to have a shot with spaniels !!!

I have no doubt what so ever that my pointer would compete with the best of the trial dogs in NZ. I just cant be bothered finishing him off to that standard. To be honest with you Brian the only thing i dont have with him is steady to flush.