Thread: I must be getting old and cynical

Originally Posted by Dorkus

My Mrs' brother wants (but can't afford) a French Bulldog - Not a working/gundog breed I know, but at $4500 for a puppy jeebus!

It will have a fashion house label tattoed on it somewhere at that price

Originally Posted by Dorkus

My Mrs' brother wants (but can't afford) a French Bulldog - Not a working/gundog breed I know, but at $4500 for a puppy jeebus!

If it's "pure bred", that is; had all its chance of breathing properly, skin acting properly etc bred out of it, that'll be the least of what they end up paying for it.

I feel for the dogs that have medical issues bred into them for the sake of what someone thinks looks attractive.

Take the GSD bitch at Crufts this year. She might have a gold medal but that dog is medically fucked in the back end.

Poor things. Humans ruin everything.


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The better news is that the KC have now changed the breed standard for GSD apparently, purely because of the up roar over that bitch.

Originally Posted by Pengy

The better news is that the KC have now changed the breed standard for GSD apparently, purely because of the up roar over that bitch.

Well that's good news.

No hope for the breeds that have their faces hit by a bus tho I guess.


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Different kettle of fish but my bitch had a litter of 6, full Collie good sire but no papers, $400 each only just covered costs of puppy food, 2 vet visits for mum and then the pups 8weeks shots. Might have made $500 tops out of it which would then need to cover the costs of petrol to and from the vets. Then there was my ferry ticket back from the island.

Originally Posted by 223nut

Different kettle of fish but my bitch had a litter of 6, full Collie good sire but no papers, $400 each only just covered costs of puppy food, 2 vet visits for mum and then the pups 8weeks shots. Might have made $500 tops out of it which would then need to cover the costs of petrol to and from the vets. Then there was my ferry ticket back from the island.

You don't breed dogs to make money, if you are very very lucky you may almost cover your costs, maybe or not

Originally Posted by mikee

You don't breed dogs to make money, if you are very very lucky you may almost cover your costs, maybe or not

Yep, going to have a second litter at some point, but yeah you don't do it for the money.

expect more of this , the labrador club recommending a clutch of dna testing including that for the silver gene???! and the nzkc coming up with approved breeder status to register your litter, time to look at a separate register for working breeds. it will be like the health and safety act,compliance costs will outweigh benefits by 10:1, and what hunter wants to pay $2000 plus for a dog. some will i know but the majority? and who will breed these litters? my guess- breeds will be maintained by show people, unless there is another register with lower fees and cost, because the paperwork,fees has just become cumbersome. ask an auckland apartment dweller,by the time he has paid his corporate body fees, his carpark, his ratebill, living costs etc , he maybe better off being whitebaiter at paringa,he certainly would have more money in his pocket without the bloodsuckers.

Originally Posted by morgun

its $2000 for a chesapeake pup and ive seen up to $1750 for a lab pup. when they do all the genetic testing, hip xrays and so on for the sire and dam it adds up. that said if no one pays that price it will come down

In many cases the x-rays and testing are part of the marketing.

Pointer our dog prices are well below the UK and USA. Price is one of the best ways the market can control the sellers... If there are duds then people don;t buy. If you charge high you better have some confidence in what you are breeding. Jim Clarke never imported from further afield than Aussie, charged about 800 a pup, I paid $1000 for Brick at 12 months (Not a bad deal ) and Liam at 9 months for $1200.00 but I believe he could have named his price because if there's been a dud I haven't seen it, not that could be attributed to genetics anyway. But it's like they say... one takes the lead. I never envisaged charging more than $1000 for pups, but then my friend got $1500.00 a litter of pups of very similar lines to mine so I thought why not? Then someone who owned a bitch and line bred to Brick got $2000 a pup, so I'm like Why Not? And this is my view Jim, no breeder can be certain every pup they produce is a winner, but they should never believe they could produce a loser, if that thought is in their head then I think they are gambling on the genetics being good, and that's not right. In nearly 40 years with gundogs I have bred 1 litter... because I waited until I could make the genetic connection to the right dog, at the right part of the pedigree... when two dogs fir my criteria.... Now, I could have played Russian Roulette and produced $1000 puppies every year for the last 20 years, But I waited those 20 years to try and get it as right as I believed it could be got. At only 8 months old the pups are suggesting I got it right. It is a litter, I truly believe, Jim Clarke himself would have been impressed with. Isn't that restraint, research, policy worth a premium compared to the guy who just keeps keeps pumping puppies out under what ever format is popular at the time?

I read through the new requirements for labs, on the whole it is a step in the right direction particularly for EIC.
However I am of the opinion the approved breeder rubbish is nothing more than a money spinner for both the nzkc and those breeders who want the fancy attached name, it has been over ten years since the TV programme pedigree dogs exposed, and the assured breeders scheme was suppose to tidy up the health of many breeds, that GSD is proof it has failed.
Now nzkc have a code of ethics they are pushing onto already overpriced registration, they have lost the plot.
A separate register may work, and could easily be run by the nzgta.
Our dogs are registered in Germany and the actual registration costs are very cheap, but by the time you add on the NZ club costs and the huge kennel fee it works out ten times more expensive than the NZKC.
Costs are pushed back to the buyers regardless, not just the paperwork but vets, fuel and feed are no longer a minor cost.
Sorry mike but you do make money out of breeding dogs, done right the outgoings match the incomings, it's what you do with the excess that counts....for us there is always another dog to bring in.

It is a hard one this...if you import a dog and think you are going to recoup your money in one litter then you are simply greedy...I do not believe that just because you have imported a dog automatically make the puppies more expensive...it was your choice to import...not the puppy buyers' choice...and I will not import a dog because I want to make money; I import a dog because I want to have the dog...

Originally Posted by kawhia

I read through the new requirements for labs, on the whole it is a step in the right direction particularly for EIC.
However I am of the opinion the approved breeder rubbish is nothing more than a money spinner for both the nzkc and those breeders who want the fancy attached name, it has been over ten years since the TV programme pedigree dogs exposed, and the assured breeders scheme was suppose to tidy up the health of many breeds, that GSD is proof it has failed.
Now nzkc have a code of ethics they are pushing onto already overpriced registration, they have lost the plot.
A separate register may work, and could easily be run by the nzgta.
Our dogs are registered in Germany and the actual registration costs are very cheap, but by the time you add on the NZ club costs and the huge kennel fee it works out ten times more expensive than the NZKC.
Costs are pushed back to the buyers regardless, not just the paperwork but vets, fuel and feed are no longer a minor cost.
Sorry mike but you do make money out of breeding dogs, done right the outgoings match the incomings, it's what you do with the excess that counts....for us there is always another dog to bring in.

Same here, any surplus from a litter ( should the be any) is put back into the dogs , yes I charge $1700 for a pup and I have a HUGE waiting list, I have a dog coming in from the UK late next year ( should he be good enough ) and semen coming in from Sweden within the next 2 months, none of which is cheap.
As for the health testing for labradors, this can only be a good thing, and I do question people who don't want to health test, isn't it better to know of any issues rather than breed blindly.

Originally Posted by Dorkus

My Mrs' brother wants (but can't afford) a French Bulldog - Not a working/gundog breed I know, but at $4500 for a puppy jeebus!

The hairdresser up the road from me paid $4.5k for hers, that is the going rate apparently. It's just gone a year old and it owes her well over $15k, ffs

Don't even get me started on the NZKC, a top heavy institution run by a pack of sequin wearing pomeranian breeders, whose sole purpose in life is to clip the ticket on dog shows. Putting regulations on pedigree dog breeders won't change public perception, pedigree dog breeders will change public perception. Time for a separate registry like the FDSB in the states. While I'm in rant mode shall I start on the NZGTA? Hahaha

Breeding animals should not be about grasping at the dollars, but it is exactly that for many. Many (maybe not all) of the breeders of anything are tosspots of the highest order, but the show people are the worst, to them the dog is nothing more than a commodity that is meant to win or at least place in the ring to validate the humans self worth, and outside the show, it has no value to them, I have two Shepherds, tried being a club member for a while cause the wife is a social sort, (unlike me!) but fuck me, what a bunch of judgemental backstabbing insecure bunch of utter losers! I have no need of ribbons, my dogs already think I'm god without them!

My mutts are from top German/Australian bloodlines, wouldn't have anything off NZ bloodlines because of what NZKC and the breeders, registered and backyard, have done to the breed in this country. I've got the best mutts on the planet, can't tell me otherwise!