Thread: new mate/ all purpose legend

hi
i'm up for a new pup after my old girl karked it earlier in the year.
I'm definitely going to get a heading dog for the casual farm work I do, and because they are legends.
My question here is has anybody had experience putting a heading dog that is trained on sheep into work finding deer as well? I'd imagine you can train them anything but just wanted to here from somebody with experience.
cheers
tom

I have. They are good and adapt well but can be gun shy if not used to it.

cheers thats all i needed to know.. can only really wait and see on the gun shyness

If you "wait and see" on gunshyness... you'll probably have gunshyness. Just do your introduction to gunfire well and you'll have no worries. I think I have an old article tucked away somewhere. If you want a copy send me a PM with an e-mail address.

I have had a few requests for this so am going to share this "chapter" here. The finished book should be available in a few months and will be distributed by Rod and Rifle.

The one thing I left out of this article is you can also ease the dogs in by taking them to the gunclub on a shoot day. But start off 200 meters or so away play a game of somesort and gradually get closer following the steps outlined in the following "Chapter"

So we’re at the point to bring in a little more formality to our retrieving games. Up until now we have kept it all as just a fun game.
But before we progress there is time to bring in some conditioning and cross two small bridges. Introduction to gunfire and water. I like to have at least begun this process before I move to more formal retrieves because we will want to incorporate both those things into future training.
Introduction to water is usually no problem but there are still some rules. I always try to introduce puppies to water in the warmer months... not only is it more pleasant for the dog but if you do have a reluctant swimmer a bit of exercise in the heat of the day next to water will usually induce them in naturally to cool off. I always like, if possible, to introduce puppies to water with another dog that is already water confident. In almost all cases the puppy just follows the older dog and introduces itself. Always try to pick a place where the pup can walk into the shallow water and gradually move into deep water. NEVER throw a pup in, this is the number one cause of dogs becoming water shy. Dogs only become water shy through some traumatic event around water. So keep your wits about you and try to think of it from the dogs’ point of view. Keep in mind at all times it doesn’t have the power of reason you have so try to control and make easy every situation. All young dogs learn faster when confident and success brings confidence. One negative can take a lot of work to repair. The other thing i would say here, and this applies to any situation where your dog is anxious, if not to praise or reassure a nervous dog. Always remembering that dogs live 100% in the moment when you praise or reassure nervous behaviour you are confirming to the dog that what it is doing right now is good... being nervous... the message you send is essentially conveying that the dog should be nervous. Usually the best reaction to nervous behaviour is indifference and your body language displaying no alarm or nervousness, the pup will cue of you how it should behave. In some cases a “Come On” command and walking away is a good way to overcome nervousness, the need to comply seems to over-ride the nervous thought pattern and the dog simply moves off with its confident handler.
Introduction to gunfire is the number one way to create a gun shy dog. You will hear countless stories from people who said they simply took their dog out and fired the shotgun and it was fine and that was that! But doing the “Let’s see if it’s gunshy” approach can create a gunshy dog as well as a gun confident dog; you are “rolling the dice” and hope for a six. Beware of the One! Imagine yourself in a situation where you were not expecting a gunshot and someone discharges a shotgun literally right behind you back? Only the laundry would know the effect it had on you! It would startle you senseless and you have the power of reason to understand what did it, who did and how... the young pup in this scenario has no idea of shots and guns etc and simply because it is a gundog breed it does not have some genetic predisposition to gunfire.
I start off right from the time the pup comes into my care. Like all conditioning starting off light and building up the levels of noise in increments is the safest and if done properly, 100% reliable method to accustom the dog to gunfire. I use stainless steel food and water bowls in my kennel and I deliberately throw them around on the concrete when cleaning or filling them etc. The thought of food and your complete indifference to the noise they make when clanging on the concrete creates a positive around this loud noise. At feeding time while the pup is consumed with its meal you can smack to pieces of 4X2 together to make a loud sharp noise. The beauty of using the wood blocks is you can customise the level of noise starting of quiet gently and working up to equivalent of the .22 crack. This set up to using, if you can, a .22 starter pistol and walking 50 meters or so, no closer, away from the kennels and firing a couple of shots as they eat. Any negative reaction from the dogs is met with simple indifference, your body language conveys all is well with the world, if there has been a negative reaction, however small, let the pup relax again, move further away and try again. Repeat this until the pup is comfortable and then slowly reverse the process so you get closer. Once the pup is comfortable with you firing it close by while it eats you are ready for the next stage. Get a mate to help. Get your pup out running around and even playing fetch or some distraction and have a mate fire, on your request when you know the pup is busy and distracted, a single shot from the shotgun or high powered rifle. If it reacts negatively just do as we did before and distract and move on. If it has no adverse reaction have your mate gets closer in 20 meter or so intervals. It might take a couple of sessions with the most nervous of pups but you should, in short time, have a dog not worried about gunfire and in time will look forward to it knowing it means a kill.

Up to this point the stop or stay we have taught the pup is very low level and has only been used when the dog has already stopped moving. During the learning process we have stopped the dog on a lead and later used the pressure of stepping in to ensure the pup stops and stays. Now we have to jump up a level and get the dog to learn to stop while on the move. It is most likely the pup will not relate the earlier stop it has been taught to apply while it is on the move and running around. This is usually pretty straight forward to teach as the dog already knows what the command means it just now needs to learn to do it in a more advanced environment. Depending on the temperament of your pup you can a long line to help with this lesson. I do use a long line on the more hard headed dogs I work with but if they are the softer type that I know will give me attention when I give the command, even if not compliance, I do not bother with he longline.
Get the dog out running around and at a point when it is coming toward you or even crossing your path in front of you Give the stop command and step sharply towards the dog. Just the pressure of your advancing presence will make most dogs stop. The ones that don’t need the longline and you stop them by putting your foot on it and having physically stopped them you move in as before to enforce it with your presence. I teach this vocally at first and once mastered will add in the stop whistle.
Once the pup has this mastered and you are confident of getting a stop to command while on the move you can add some extras.

cheers for that, yeah I did some looking up of gunshyness and will give it all a go once uni finishes for the year and I get a pup..I'm pretty tempted to get some type of pointer x lab or something along those lines on top of my heading dog after todays unsucessful hunt!

Putting the work into what you've got will usually pay more dividends than replacing it... also dogs help the hunt, but they don;t make it. If you're not shooting deer without a dog, a dog won't help much. Once you are shooting deer, a dog, if you put the work in will hopefully help you get a few more and make finding wounded ones easier... but they are not a magic formula to success. In fact I'd go as far as to say if you are not getting a dog because you are really into making a great dog and really wanting to hunt with dog you are usually better off without one. A dog gets good because you know how to hunt, but the best dog in the world can;t make someone a hunter.