Thread: Why mixing headers and pointers?

heading dogs USUALLY only bark if in high pressure/stress situation eg bailing up animal like pig or deer...they naturally want to bring game/animals to the master......it is hilarious/wondeful thing to be in paddock with young heading pup and mob of sheep.if left along the pup will bring sheep to master without any commands,it just happens,they dont know why,just that is what to do....I remember my heading dog herding a pig back up to where I was then grabbing it for me....
Ive had huntaway/gsp and huntaway golden retriever..both were hard to keep from barking..my current bitch is beardie collie X GSPXlab and we still struggle with not barking at times.
I would love a cocker spaniel or welshy Xheading dog..... small,light and quiet....

These Huntawaydogs of yours sounds amazing when I scroll the forum. I understand the good use of a really smart dog as most heerding/heading dogs are. To bad it´s hard to get them to my side of the globe

Originally Posted by Chur Bay

100 percent will have 50 percent of each parent.
What changes is the particular combination of genes/alleles that each offspring has. This means while some pups may look a lot like Dad or Mum, they will still have exactly half of their genetics from the other parent.

Each pup will have 50% of its genetics from the directly expressed genes of the parents. So each parent contributes only 25%. The remaining 50% is made up from the genetics of the back ancestry in a fractional amount per back generation. So a pup or anything else for that matter, can display / express genes which are different to the parents and different to full siblings. Genes that were carried by the parents but not expressed. This is what explains the variation between offspring of the same parents

The sixth form ( or earlier ) lessons (erniec) focus on plants and hybrid crosses from experiments with red and white sweet peas ( Gregor Mendel ) which come out with the ratios as above

Originally Posted by Efalk

These Huntawaydogs of yours sounds amazing when I scroll the forum. I understand the good use of a really smart dog as most heerding/heading dogs are. To bad it´s hard to get them to my side of the globe

Crossing two distinct and unrelated breeds produces a very consisted and vigorous result - a Hybrid. Unfortunately this enhancement of traits is not heritable so Hybrid animals are generally not used as breeding stock unless they are crossed to other unrelated breeds. Selecting within pedigree or pure breeds will result in gains long term and a slow and steady improvement. Crossing heading dogs with a hunting breed does produce a very useful cross with all good characters enhanced and the common health issues of pedigrees masked.
A solution for you in Sweden would be to use a Border Collie as a cross. Crossed with a GWP I would think would be outstanding. I am sure that you could sell the pups easily

Originally Posted by NzHeavyHauler

I have a GWP X NZheading and from personal experience i find you get a dog that looks, sounds, scents and points like a pointer but is far more clever and easier to train. They are also slightly smaller frame, faster and far mor attentive and quiet when working. Ive also found they aren't as needy as pointers

Aren’t Huntaways breed to bark a lot? Doesn’t that get displayed in the mixed breeds?

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Each pup will have 50% of its genetics from the directly expressed genes of the parents. So each parent contributes only 25%. The remaining 50% is made up from the genetics of the back ancestry in a fractional amount per back generation. So a pup or anything else for that matter, can display / express genes which are different to the parents and different to full siblings. Genes that were carried by the parents but not expressed. This is what explains the variation between offspring of the same parents

The sixth form ( or earlier ) lessons (erniec) focus on plants and hybrid crosses from experiments with red and white sweet peas ( Gregor Mendel ) which come out with the ratios as above

I’m a bit scared to mix with the Border Collies because I’ve heard that they easily get scared of shots!? They are a bit more nervous I think? I’m looking for a breed that is as smart as the Border Collie but more rugged… a Huntaway!?

Originally Posted by Efalk

I’m a bit scared to mix with the Border Collies because I’ve heard that they easily get scared of shots!? They are a bit more nervous I think? I’m looking for a breed that is as smart as the Border Collie but more rugged… a Huntaway!?

I used a Border collie/huntaway x as a pig dog. It looked like a pure Border, with similar traits. It was fine with a rifle, but like any dog, you have to be careful getting it used to rifle shots. I used to take it for walks with a quiet air gun. It hardly noticed the rifle firing, but quickly associated the rifle with going for a walk. I then used a suppressed 22, next unsuppressed and eventually a centrefire. By the time I used the centrefire it was well used to the rifle. I also made sure that it would see me shooting the rifle so it was expecting it to go off, not surprised when it went bang.

My old huntaway used to get so excited if it heard me working the action of the rifle in my bedroom that he would jump up onto the back door, push down the handle and come inside to the bedroom because he knew he was going hunting! He would do the same with thunder, except through fear! He loved my short barrelled .303 going off, but was scared of thunder. He'd open the back door, sneak inside and run upstairs and jump onto mum and dad's bed whenever thunder rumbled.....

Originally Posted by Efalk

Aren’t Huntaways breed to bark a lot? Doesn’t that get displayed in the mixed breeds?

Huntaways are backing dogs bred for big noise and push. Bastards can drive you mental if a bunch are let out of the kennels at the same time and all start barking together. They are bred from one of the hound breeds and trailbark like American hounds. Some are smart but most are friendly dumb bastards.

I dont think Border Collies are timid or scared of gunfire, more they just have self preservation in mind and keep away from the boom stick after they have seen what it can do.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Huntaways are backing dogs bred for big noise and push. Bastards can drive you mental if a bunch are let out of the kennels at the same time and all start barking together. They are bred from one of the hound breeds and trailbark like American hounds. Some are smart but most are friendly dumb bastards.

I dont think Border Collies are timid or scared of gunfire, more they just have self preservation in mind and keep away from the boom stick after they have seen what it can do.

My Border Collie- Heading never worried about gunfire even though she was in an era when my rifles were suppressed. But she was paranoid about thunder, wouldn't leave her kennel if any was about.

That sums up my Huntaways Lab cross Jed
A big friendly boofhead.


Bea my Heading Viszla cross is a lot smarter. But a little more naughtier. Still only 7 months so very much still a pup.
Jed goes good on Deer but I think Bea will be better. I will start her in the bush in the next month or so.so we will see.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

I was going to mention huntaways being big dumb boofheads, but thought someone might roast me.

I expect a lot of us are nodding our heads in agreement.

The shepherd on our farm had two very good huntaways, one was the son of the other. Both had some white in their coats, which was supposedly a no-no for good huntaways. Most of his dogs got a bullet and a kick down the offal hole when their time was done, but these two got buried on high points overlooking the valley.
Both were great stock dogs, and excellent finder/bailers until they got too valuable to use on pigs. They could switch from pigs to goats easily, and stay focused on the chosen species until told otherwise.
Dad had a great laugh one day sitting on a high point overlooking a face that the shepherd was mustering. The shepherd was yelling his head off at Jake, but middle-aged Jake was happily chasing grasshoppers in the rushes like a puppy out of sight of the boss
I got the other top dog Joe, Jakes son, when he was old and slow and the shepherd had retired from farming and Joe would otherwise have been put down. Even though he was slow, he could still find and bail pigs, and several people used to borrow him from me for pighunting and I wouldn't see him for weeks at a time.
On the boofhead side of things, I used to tie him up by simply playing a bit with the clip on his collar, with no chain or rope, then head off with the other dogs to do some mustering. When we came back, old Joe would be standing at the limit of his non-existent chain barking at us!

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I would love a cocker spaniel or welshy Xheading dog..... small,light and quiet....

had to read that twice after i saw welshy....... thought you were going to say you wanted a corgi............

now corgi actually ok on pigs too...and leathal on cattle,afterall its what they were bred for.just cant run overly fast on those stumpy legs.

@Micky Duck Exactly; they were bred as a cattle dog.

If you are in Europe get yourself a griffen from hunting lines and you will have a fantastic dog, from what I have seen they seem to be a slightly slower GWP. There are a few NZ bred huntaways in Finland and a really good line of NZ Huntaways in Scotland as well as few NZ heading dogs. I personally wouldn't cross any of the herding breeds with pointing breeds,especially when you have access to well bred and proven pointers.